Baber Afzal

Episode 22: Show Notes.

From filmmaker to architect, to web designer, to photographer, and finally to NFT creator, Baber Afzal has done it all! Tune in today to find out how one person has explored all of these careers in his journey to the world of NFTs, and the lessons he learned along the way. We dive into the discussion with Baber describing how he was too excited to sleep following his discovery of NFTs, and why he feels being unique is crucial to being an artist. We hear why Baber doesn’t use his hardware wallet, and NorCal’s suggestions to get more comfortable with it, as well as how NorCal got in on the Bored Apes boom. Baber tells us what his favorite food is, why, and how he got his big breakthrough, a request from Porsche. We hear three pieces of advice that Baber has been given, and what his advice for aspiring NFT artists is, in turn. We then flip the interview roles, with Baber posing some fascinating questions to NorCal, including what he does differently to other people, his most treasured memories, and whether pineapple goes on pizza! Join us today for all this, and so much more. 

Key Points From This Episode:

●   We welcome Baber Afzal, visual artist, website designer, and full-time NFT creator. 

●   Why Baber is afraid of using his hardware wallet, and NorCal’s advice on how to get more comfortable using one. 

●   How Baber’s mind was blown when he first heard of NFTs, and how he entered the NFT world. 

●   Why an artist needs to be unique. 

●   The plethora of other jobs that Baber has held, and the lessons that he has learned throughout his journey. 

●   How a request from Porsche gave Baber his chance. 

●   Baber’s favorite food (Nihari and burgers), and what makes these delicious. 

●   Three pieces of advice Baber lives by: pursuing passion wholeheartedly, letting inspiration come naturally, and persevering. 

●   Why Baber recommends that artists new to the NFT space focus on themselves and not the SuperRare label.

●   How NorCal helped keep Baber in the NFT space. 

●   Find out what the most challenging time in NorCal’s and Baber’s lives has been. 

●   What NorCal does differently to other people. 

●   NorCal’s history in the crypto space.

●   What to do when you’re filming your friend’s marriage proposal and she says “no”, NorCal’s most treasured memories, and other rapid-fire questions from Baber. 

●   NorCal’s advice to struggling artists: network, pricing, and crypto cycles. 

●   Why Baber is focusing on onboarding female artists.


Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode: 

Baber Afzal

Baber Afzal on Instagram

NorCal and Shill on Twitter

Transcript

EPISODE 22

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:32] NorCal: Hey everyone. Welcome to the next episode of NorCal and Shill. Today's guest is Baber Afzal. You can find him on Twitter @baberafzal, which is spelled B-A-B-E-R A-F-Z-A-L. His website his baberafzal.com and his Instagram is @baberafzal. He’s a website designer and visual artist. He has transitioned full time into NFT's in 2021. Passing clients include the office of His Highness, the Crown Prince of Dubai, as their fine art photographer, Porsche, and Emaar.

Awards include the IPA Awards 2013 and ‘14. Second place for Architecture and 16 Honorable Mentions. Sony World Photography Awards 2018. He has been featured on PetaPixel, F Stoppers, DJI and National Geographic photo competition, Capture One Pro, Adorama, SLR Lounge. He served as an ambassador for Capture One Pro, DJI, and Formatt Hitech Filters. You can find his work on MakersPlace, Foundation and OpenSea. Everyone please welcome Baber.

[INTERVIEW]

[00:01:48] NorCal: Hey, Baber. Welcome to the podcast. How you doing today?

[00:01:52] BA: Hey, NorCal. I'm good. How's everything going with you?

[00:01:55] NorCal: Pretty good. Actually, it's been raining here and the sun is out today. And not too cold outside. A good start to my day. I know you're finishing up your day.

[00:02:05] BA: Yeah, I just got back getting some white chocolate crepe. So, dessert for me. Just a treat myself. But it's almost like I guess, it's after dinner. So, it's like almost 10 PM for me here.

[00:02:05] NorCal: Yeah. That's exactly like 12-hour difference. It's 10 AM here.

[00:02:23] BA: Yeah, I think also the daytime savings that you guys have. I guess that's why it's like 10 hours. Usually it's 11 hours. That's what I've noticed. But yeah, it's cool. It's chilly outside. It's raining for the last four or five days here. It's raining in the — so, bizarre. But yeah, it feels good for exchange. I miss the rain.

[00:02:46] NorCal: That sounds good. That rain air is always nice.

[00:02:49] BA: Oh, yes. And have it with Chai, with some good tea. Oh, it's a bliss. But yeah, you should definitely visit when you get the chance to.

[00:02:57] NorCal: Yeah, it's on the list. There's a lot of places I want to visit now.

[00:03:03] BA: Nice.

[00:03:04] NorCal: Do you use a hardware wallet?

[00:03:07] BA: Don't kill me for this. I have it, but I don't use it. Because I'm too afraid to use it. So, I just don't know, like, because I've heard horror stories of how people have put their stuff in there and they can’t retrieve it because of some problems or issues they face. It scares the living daylights out of me.

[00:03:28] NorCal: Well, I mean, baby steps. You just got to start off small. I mean, I'm sure I don't know. But I mean, you could get some cheap NF T and test it out.

[00:03:38] BA: Okay. That's actually not a bad idea. But I want to ask you like once you transfer the NFT to your wallet, does it like delist from the platform so no one can bid on it?

[00:03:51] NorCal: So basically, your wallet, you have an address, and anyone can always see what's on that address. If I happen to know what your wallet address is, I can look at it on OpenSea and see what is on that ledger. Your hardware wallet is like, it holds your keys, basically. So, you have to physically say, “Yes, I want to sell this or I want to move this.” That's what helps do it.

[00:04:21] BA: Okay. I just need it, as you said, I have to try like one baby step at a time. Just play with the most simplest, cheapest thing which I can afford to lose. Just go with that and see how we go.

[00:04:32] NorCal: Yeah, just something easy.

[00:04:34] BA: Yeah, I mean, I use the ledger. I have the ledger, I think it's a Nano, Nano S and Nano X, it's one of the two. It's not the Bluetooth version.

[00:04:43] NorCal: Okay, the X.

[00:04:45] BA: Yes, the X.

[00:04:46] NorCal: Or is the S. It might be the S. 

[00:04:49] BA: I bought it like some time ago, but I never got the chance to play around with it. I've configured it and everything. But I haven't like initiated any kind of transaction. Because I don't know, I don't want to goof up or do anything stupid. It's like, “Okay, I have this.”

[00:05:05] NorCal: You could start off with like, you know, just moving some ETH back and forth, because that's relatively cheap to do.

[00:05:12] BA: Yeah, that's true.

[00:05:14] NorCal: And then connect it to your Metamask, and then you can easily start to try NFT’s.

[00:05:22] BA: Oh, yeah, for sure. Absolutely. I think I'll definitely do that. I'll do that as my next step.

[00:05:28] NorCal: It is intimidating. I mean, because there's no tech support.

[00:05:32] BA: Oh, yeah, that's true. So, it's like you're on your own, basically. So, I think I'll have to watch some YouTube videos before…

[00:05:39] NorCal: Because I mean, if you send it to the wrong address, you can't get it back.

[00:05:43] BA: Shit. It's all on you if anything happens. Yeah.

[00:05:48] NorCal: I mean, it's awesome because no one can prevent you from moving it anywhere you want. But you also can't get it back if you send it somewhere wrong.

[00:05:58] BA: Yeah, I have to be extremely careful. Thankfully, I managed to configure it smoothly, and everything works fine. It’s that I haven't yet — I've heard there are issues people were facing with Metamask and Ledger. So, I'm like, “Okay, I would not do that. Link it with the hardware in there. So, I'll just use its own software, which exists, and just go over that.”

[00:06:17] NorCal: Yeah, I've heard different issues. And I've heard occasionally, I've heard they fixed them. I heard like Google Chrome browser was having issues recently. So, I don't know. I usually use like Brave or Firefox.

[00:06:31] BA: I use Brave. I started using Brave. I think, six, seven months ago. I read a Twitter post. I don't know if it was DC Investor or who did but they — or 6529, I guess. One of them had a long thread regarding security on browser. I have a Brave browser. I’m like, “Oh, shoot.” I had to install it and transfer everything from Chrome to there. So now, I don't use Chrome anymore. It's good. I haven't yet used the Brave’s own wallet. It has its own. They recently introduced it. I was like, “I don't know how this stuff works.” But I haven't gotten there yet. 

[00:07:07] NorCal: I haven't even tried. I don't know. So, what were your first thoughts when you heard about NFT’s?

[00:07:16] BA: So, this goes back to the Clubhouse days and I'm talking about it was end of December 2020, I was in the room, and they were discussing about NFT's. I was like, “Holy shit, man. This is like revolutionary.” It was mind blowing what they were saying. I had insomnia for two weeks. because I was that mind blown by what it's capabilities, what it's capable of, and the beauty about this new technology that's coming into fruition. I was like, “Man, okay, you know what, I have to first understand what the hell is a blockchain.” I have to understand, like, go to the basics, watch YouTube videos, what is an NFT? What is a blockchain? Get into crypto and all this. And then luckily enough, I don't know if you know, David Areo?

[00:08:09] NorCal: Yeah.

[00:08:10] BA: So, I came across him through Facebook, when he managed to successfully sell his first NFT, first couple of NFTs back in February, I believe. It was to triple eight or something like that. But I hooked up with him. And I said, “Dude, can you tell me more about this? How can I get into this thing, because I'm still new to this?” So, he was kind enough to add me to his closed group, which is called, Get NFT Group, which was a group of mainly 3D artists, and you had nice graphics in there, and everyone was there. I was one of the few photographers in there, including, I think, Bella Kotak, as well, she was there in it. And then, that's when it all started.

That was when, like, we were a part of this group discussing NFT’s, having Discord hangouts every once a week, or like getting to find out like, “Okay, where do we start from?” So, I think everyone was dying to get on foundation then. Because we couldn't find anyone into Foundation. I remember, you know what, as a test, because I haven't mentioned anything before, let me try wearable first, because wearable was the most accessible place to go to. I tried wearable, I mentioned my very first piece on there, which I burned it. So, it's off. But I kind of like, just as a test, let me see how this goes. And thankfully, everything went smoothly.

But then, I think a few weeks later, I managed to get an invite for myself into Foundation and this was somewhere in March. So, that's when I decided to go officially launch my first Genesis piece on that platform. And then this craze started — at that time, I remember so well, that SuperRare is not what SuperRare is today. It was still growing, because at that point in time, I believe MakersPlace and SuperRare were neck and neck, as far as I believe, because people were about to have his drop on MakersPlace at that time.

So, it was a totally different phase, I would say. I think I applied to both, but I managed to get into MakersPlace later. I think, two months later. But it was nonetheless, I would say, a fascinating discovery and an experience, to come across such a domain, such a dimension, I would say. I've come across some amazing artists, especially 3D artists, and they started to teach me 3D. So, I was like, “Okay, you know what, no harm trying.” Because I love always experimenting around, I love to try new things. So, that's when I got into 3D, because when you surround yourself mainly with 3D artists who are the best of the best, it's bound to happen. It’s only a matter of time. And photography was not trending at that time. I remember very well. Photography started trending somewhere in end of April, May, somewhere along those lines, I remember when — I don't know if [inaudible 00:11:19], when he started collecting a lot at that point in time. And people started, that's when I saw the ball rolling. Okay, there's some movement happening in photography. But nonetheless, it's been quite an amazing journey so far.

[00:11:35] NorCal: Yeah. It's been a good year, for sure.

[00:11:37] BA: Yeah, it’s been a revolutionary year, I would say. It's like, I think this 2021 will go down in history books, I believe. So, yeah, a lot happened. The other thing, which I had to get used to is the timeline, this environment is in, it's totally different compared to the world timeline. It's like, totally different. So, I had to, like, literally, it's like, everything is at warp speed. It's like, I remember because all this time, I've been only observing. I've been observing when these bored apes came out, and cool cats came out. I never bought into any of it. Because I was just a keen observer. Okay, you know what, I don't know what's going on, I don't know why everyone is crazy about these apes. But let's see what happens. Now, it's worth a fortune. So, I kind of like regret it. I wish I just had one, just got one at least. But I think I've learned my lesson the hard way.

[00:12:39] NorCal: Well, I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, there's been so many different projects at this point. It's like a gamble.

[00:12:47] BA: It is, true. Did you invest into it? Did you get any?

[00:12:50] NorCal: I did. I didn’t get to mint them. They sold out. I remember, someone messaged me, like, “Hey, these apes are minting right now.” And I was like, I was in bed, checking my phone. I was like, “I'm not getting out bed to mint this.” They sold out. And then the next day, Meebits came out. And then everyone was talking about Meebits, and the bored apes market kind of came down. So, that's when I bought in

[00:13:17] BA: Okay. Yes, that phase did happen. I remember that. But I was so like, I just could not — since I was totally new to this space, I could not comprehend why it's happening. But I kept questioning myself, like, what's going on? But I was like, had I known the significance of it, I would’ve definitely got into it. But I remember the height that back then. Everyone in that Get NFT Group we were in, which had mainly all these amazing 3D artists were discussing about it. They're like, “Oh, I got a bored ape. I got a bored ape.” I’m like, “What's going on?” I didn't feel a FOMO then. I feel it now. But yeah, it's been quite an experience.

[00:14:01] NorCal: So, what brought you to art? Or why did you choose art?

[00:14:05] BA: It’s a good one. So, I wasn't really into photography, or got into it till the year 2007, around that time. I never took it seriously. Let me put it that way. I mean, I didn't even have a camera at that point. So, it was only when I went out with my friends and I had my sister's Cybershot camera with me. I went out towards Margala Hills, which is in Islamabad. It's a beautiful, beautiful place. It's like these hilltops where you can overlook the city. I don't know, it's like, when I was shooting, just taking the camera and shooting around, I was so fascinated by the light. That light of the sun was so beautiful, and so crisp. I was like, “Wow, what an angle to shoot at. What an amazing thing to capture.”

I think it's mainly because being a computer engineer major, I did my bachelor's in that. So, I was really fascinated by editing, in the editing process. I would spend a lot more time editing and that time I was editing mostly and I don't know if you know, Apple Aperture.

[00:15:19] NorCal: I don't.

[00:15:21] BA: So, this was going way before iPhoto. So, they used to have this professional application called Aperture. I used to use that then for editing purposes, and I was really blown away, like, “Wow, look how those highlights are coming out. How the shadows are coming out.” I was, like, playing around with the application. And yeah, that's what really — it gave me the opportunity to express my vision, the way I see things, and, you know, I think I'm sure you can sense it from my portfolio, that my images don't really depict reality. They do, but at the same time, it's like, mixed with surrealism in a way.

I tend to add my own touch to it or something, which I say, to give it a sense of meaning in how I view it. I think that's what really pulled me towards art, as a way for me to express myself, these hidden emotions I have within myself. Because I also remember like, I mean, later on, I think it was in the year 2011 end, or something like that. I went through an extremely bad, let's say, breakup. I broke up — like my relationship came to an end and that's when I would say, photography saved me at a time. Because you could tell by looking at the images, I still have them, they look like shit, I can show you. I’m talking about 2012, ‘11. But it's like, they were really dark and grungy.

I think it was mainly because of the pain I was going through at that time. I think that's why I was creating such dark imagery at that point and time in my life, but it really helped relieve the pain, which I was having at that moment. That's when I started to really discover a lot of amazing artists and photographers. I started connecting a lot back in 2012. What basically happens is like, when you lose someone you love, it creates a vacuum in you, and you try to find a way to fill that void. In order to do so, I just started adding a lot of photographers on Facebook, and Google Plus. Google Plus was really big back then. So, I was like, actively — we had some Photowalks in LA at that time, and I got to meet a lot of amazing photographers back then. So yeah, that's how my journey started towards photography.

[00:17:48] NorCal: Alright, I like it, it's a good journey.

[00:17:50] BA: It is. A bit of an emotional journey. But also like, I would say, my art has always been evolving every step of the way. I have noticed a shift, because what happens is that after a certain point in time, as an artist, you get — as myself, I can talk about it. I get fed up of, let's say, pursuing a particular style. I would say after some point, you're like, “Oh, you know what, it's time to do something innovative. Do something different.” Now, I've moved a lot into conceptual, so I'm now like adding in maybe elements of design into my imagery. That's my next phase.

[00:18:32] NorCal: Okay, looking forward to that.

[00:18:34] BA: For sure. It's going to be something definitely — I've already visualized it, it’s just a matter of nailing the execution, just getting it right, just finding the right perspectives to tell a story, or to make sense out of it. But it already looks beautiful in my imagination. Let's hope I managed to pull it off. I'm sure it'll work out good, it's just that I really look forward to it. I think that's my objective for this year. Because if there's one thing I've generally —

So, as an artist, I think it's important to kind of find a way to separate yourself from the masses, like to find something that's unique to you, that represents you, your identity, so that when people look at your work, they're like, “Ah, that's Baber’s”. “Okay, this is something that only he can pull off.” That's always been my, I would say, my objective, whether I do architecture, or whether to do landscapes, people generally know me for my desert scapes. They're like, “Oh, this is definitely Baber’s work.” I don't know, this is generally like, I think I have a certain style of shooting it. But yeah, I think that stylization comes with time, comes with experience, I would say.

[00:19:44] NorCal: So curious, what jobs have you done along the way, other than being a photographer?

[00:19:51] BA: Oh, man. I don't quite — I wouldn't say odd jobs, but I would say I used to work for corporate jobs. I'm talking about 2006, 2008 I was working for — I mean, for the first half, I was working for ADD industries and sales support. And then I moved into Siemens later. In Siemens, I was a Business Development Executive. So, wearing a suit and a tie every day, going the morning, and working in the public sector out here, in the IT department. Cutthroat, really, I would say, well, it was something, it struck me, like, when I was working there, and I kept making presentations and doing all that. It's like, every now and then I would question myself, “Is this life? Is this how life is supposed to be?”

I kept internally questioning myself this because I believe I meant for something more than this. So, it was something that was speaking to me. I'm sure at some point, everyone self reflects on their journey, or what they're pursuing in life. What's their true calling? And that was my job back then. But yeah, and then, I kind of like, because of the recession that happened, they were letting go of a lot of employees at that time, and that also included me. So, I was let go of my job, and that's when it really hit me that no matter how great a resume you have, if a company doesn't need you anymore, they don't need you. Simple. It really hit me at that moment. And that's when I really decided to, I said, “You know what, fuck it.” I said, “I'm just going to pursue what I really love doing.” And at that point in time, it was photography, which I was doing as a hobby at that point in time. I said, “Okay, you know what, let me take this up and start it.” It was back in 2008.

I would say it wasn't easy. Initially, I thought that, okay, getting gigs would be pretty easy. But I was like, nope. It wasn't as easy as I thought it would be. But it was quite a struggle to get jobs. But thankfully, I feel blessed. I started off with doing a lot of real estate architecture. So real estate photography. Those are the first gigs I was getting back then. And yeah, I mean, my father, may he rest in peace, he really, and my mother, they really believed in my passion. But my father said to me “If you're going to pursue this as your career in life, you better start eating, sleeping, drinking photography”. I'm like, “I'm up for it.” He's like, “I'm down for it, I don't care.” It's like, put my head down.

I did a lot of all the editing processes, or like, whatever stylization I've learned is purely through my own experimentation. Also, thanks to some of my mentors, who are some of the best in the world, and who have really guided me. And you know, who educated me when it comes to editing aspects of it like. But yeah, it helped me evolve as an artist. So, I would say, it's been quite an amazing journey so far, and I'm still evolving. I'm still learning every day. Every day I come across, how can we do this differently? For example, when I got this campaign for Porsche, for example, that was out of the blue, by the way. They reached out to me, because they read an article about me through my gallery back then. And they said, “We want you on board.” I'm like, “Wow.” They're like, “Yeah, we love your style. We love your imagery. And we would like to see what you can create for us.” I’m like, “Okay, I'm in.”

I remember, so it's like, they were — I said, “Okay.” At that time, I didn't know the full picture of what kind of imagery they wanted. But then they said to me, “We need something that's never been done before”. I go, “That sounds pretty simple”. They said this on the call. Obviously, I was being sarcastic. But yeah, it was like, I had to come up with ideas in less than a week. It was. I had to do a lot of digging around and finding something that's never been done. I came across a lot of inspiration at that point in time. I presented several concepts to them. One of them, which was drone light painting, which was inspired by Reuben Wu. So, they're like, “Wow, we love this.” They were like, “You ready to execute it?” I'm like, “Yeah, just bring it on.”

So, that was one specific journey. Can ask you one thing though.

[00:24:33] NorCal: Yeah.

[00:24:34] BA: Would you be cutting things out as well, in between?

[00:24:36] NorCal: No.

[00:24:38] BA: Oh, God. Okay. Alright, oops. Because you start off with the topic of what kind of jobs I had and I went on tangent. Damn it. It happens with me.

[00:24:48] NorCal: It’s all good. It's all good. We’re for the stories.

[00:24:51] BA: Okay. Yeah. So, getting back to the jobs. The other kind of jobs I did was primarily I would say, when I got into New York Film Academy, this was back in 2011 in LA. So yeah, I started filmmaking back then. I was there for like, I had a crash course for one year, a bootcamp and studied cinematography, editing, video editing, and the jobs, which I did after that, after I finished my diploma was primarily working as a video editor and a cinematographer for a production house in Hollywood at that time, which was, I don't know if you heard of Jukin Media. So, it's pretty big brand that create a lot of these viral videos and stuff.

So, I was creating viral content for them as their video editor at that time. I was working with them for like, a year and a half. That was an amazing experience. But yeah, these were mainly the jobs I had and I think when I came back to Dubai, after 2013, I was blessed, again, through, I would say, by destiny or like something like by luck, or to work for the Office of the Crown Prince out here, in Dubai, and that was quite an experience. I was working with them for like a year. But I had to create some unique imagery for them, of Dubai, by that time. It was an amazing experience. Stressful, yes. But at the same time, I learned a lot working with the government at that time. It was I feel honored and privileged to do so.

And then later on, after I left my job there, I joined my father. When I joined my father, he was basically, like, he was running his own IT consultancy. So, I joined hands with him and I was basically taking care of the content creation side of things like, creating content for clients could be from creating corporate videos, or taking corporate headshots for clients and stuff. That was my objective at that point in time. Also doing interior photography, architectural photography for clients, here and there, and that was also in the focus.

But things changed drastically, especially after my father passed away. This was towards the end of 2016. I would say, because he was bringing, like most of the business was being brought in to him, like he was being a consultant. There was no way for me to take on his role. So, there was no way — obviously, those contracts had to come to an end and I had to shift gears. That's when I got into website designing. I had, thankfully, a team back in Pakistan. They do a lot of website development. I would pitch to clients revamping their websites, primarily in WordPress. So, WordPress, and Shopify. These were the two platforms, which was my core focus. And thankfully, that's what's really helped us get through that hard time.

Photography, unfortunately, wasn't, I would say, wasn't as active or like, I was doing photography, but I wasn't getting enough projects at that time. But it was website designing and development, which was helping us sustain at that moment. Obviously, it still wasn't easy. It's like until end of 2020, things thankfully, really started picking up. Thankfully, Porsche campaign, which I got the chance to do. So, that was a big sigh of relief. It's been quite a journey. I've come a long way. We've been through a lot of — I mean, the most difficult time for us was, especially after my father died. I mean, we had to downsize ourselves. We had to shift from moving from a three bed to like a studio, because we had to do cost cuttings at the time. But it was, thankfully, like, I would say — I've learned one thing, if you're persistent, and if you don't give up, that's important. If you keep grinding, eventually the tough times fade away. But you have to keep that mindset. It's important to keep that approach in life that no storm lasts forever. So thankfully, I feel blessed now that I've come this far, and here we are, thankfully. So yeah, wow, that's quite an answer for that one question.

[00:29:10] NorCal: No, it's solid. We're here for the stories.

[00:29:13] BA: Holy shit, man. That's a long one.

[00:29:18] NorCal: Switching gears. Do you have a favorite food?

[00:29:21] BA: Oh, man. Favorite food. I would say — can I I name more than one or shall I just like stick with one?

[00:29:28] NorCal: We can go — let’s go up to two.

[00:29:31] BA: Damn, man. I would say, I don't know if you've heard of Nihari. So Nihari, is a Pakistani dish, which is basically slow cooked beef and with its own gravy. It takes like I think a good eight hours to cook. But man, it melts in your mouth. It is damn good. I’m sure in LA you have it. I remember having it. There's one near the LAX airport, a Pakistani tiny restaurant. I'll find the name and I'll send it to you. It's a must have if you get the chance to. Worth it. And burgers. I love a good burger. I miss Umami Burger, a lot. Their burgers are amazing. Their fries especially. But yeah, these two are my favorite.

[00:30:23] NorCal: Okay. All right. Sounds good. I mean, Nihari sounds great.

[00:30:27] BA: You should try it. If you love beef, you'll definitely love this.

[00:30:30] NorCal: Yeah, it's funny. There are a couple things that come to mind when you say, like cooked long and slow, it’s like Korean short ribs have like that really tender fall apart. And then like corned beef, but yeah. 

[00:30:47] BA: Yeah, you would die for it. I know for sure. Once you have it, I know, you squeeze some lemon on it or give you some ginger as well. They give you some green chili as well. It's amazing.

[00:30:59] NorCal: I might have to check it out.

[00:31:01] BA: Oh, yeah, for sure. I'll try to find it if I can on Google Maps and send it to you, that location.

[00:31:05] NorCal: Nice. All right. I look forward to that. So, what's the best advice you've been given?

[00:31:12] BA: I would say, which I discussed earlier, like, I think, which was “If you pursue your passion, any passion, you should pursue it wholeheartedly”. You don't do anything half assed. I would say, sure, there are moments I have as an artist, where you feel burned out, where you have a creative block. I think, last year, ever since the pandemic started, I've been going through a lot of this creative block, which thankfully has been coming to an end now. It's a very natural thing to have. I believe, give yourself time to reignite that spark in you. So, that's another thing. Don't force yourself to be inspired basically, it should come to you naturally. So, that's the second advice I would give. It's important to also like have perseverance, but also be patient. I would say, that's the key, and don't be afraid to experiment around. I would love to experiment around try some.

[00:32:15] NorCal: Do you have any advice for artists joining the NFT space?

[00:32:20] BA: Yes. This is something I wanted to really discuss. I see a lot of artists joining right now craving to get onto SuperRare because it's doing well. I see many applying to it. But I would say that for anyone joining in, like they should stop being platform driven, and they should start focusing on themselves. Try to make yourself so unique at what you do in your craft that the platforms come looking for you and even the collectors, or anyone come looking for you. That's the kind of mindset you should be having when you come into NFTs. Because of the current approach where artists are applying to getting onto a platform, just because they see a lot of sales happening on there, there's no guarantee that you will have a sale, even if you're on that platform. So, that's why it's important for any new artist, emerging artists joining into the NFT space, that focus on yourself. Be true to yourself, and carve a niche for yourself that no one else has in this space. That uniqueness is what will take you forward not only as an artist, but also in the NFT space and in general, in life.

[00:33:41] NorCal: Okay. Yeah, that's good.

[00:33:43] BA: Because I see it, unfolding, like I see, it does concern me at times like how everyone's craving to get onto a platform, so that's one thing. It's just that's definitely a factor, which I wanted to discuss. I'm glad I could tell it, say it as it is now. But yeah, because what I'm mainly — the other observation which I've been seeing is like, I think it's this unfortunate mindset that if you get onto SuperRare, you've made it as an artist, which is not the right mindset. I think, generally, I've seen evidence generally the way the community, I think. Is. Anyone who gets onto Super Rare is like, it gives the impression like in a sense that they are better than you, which is not true. Because there are so many phenomenal artists who are not on SuperRare, but they're doing damn well.

I think it's important, especially for artists, to shift that mindset that they have to focus on themselves, and stop worrying about which platform they're on. That's key. Learn to celebrate other artist’s success in this space, that's important. But don't let their sales get to you. You know what I mean? So, it's like don't feel as if you're missing something. Don't feel that you are being left behind. That is a really important factor. Because as an artist, you have a path that is unique to you, and each one of us will have our time to shine when our time comes.

The other thing is, not to be fooled by all the sales happening because the Twitter algorithm is skewed in such a manner that it basically gives importance to, let's say, any post that's going viral. So, for example, if one artist is celebrating success, it feels as if many other artists have been getting a sale, which is not true. It's only that particular artist who has got the sale. But there are many others who haven't got the sale. So, that's basically the important thing, which I wanted to share with the audience and with the artists that you're not being left behind. There are many out there who are still waiting, who are still being patient, and they will have their moment to shine, and not to give up.

[00:36:09] NorCal: Important.

[00:36:09] BA: Yeah, not to give up because this space will grind you like anything. I remember, I feel so blessed to say this, but you were one of my first collectors. I think this was back in June. I mean, it's June or July?

[00:36:25] NorCal: Yeah, I think so.

[00:36:26] BA: And I was at the verge of giving up, I would say. But thankfully, I kept hanging on because I was like, just killed whatever expectations I had. Just forget it, like, be yourself and just enjoy the time you having connecting with other artists. Thankfully, I'm so glad that, eventually I managed to get a sale thanks to you. So, that was really a big boost of confidence for me as an artist. I priced myself right, based on my work and that's definitely a big booster. It definitely ignited the spark in me again. There's a lot to be done. That really helped me push me forward.

The other thing I would just want to say to anyone who's joining in, any emerging artist joining in is that it's important for you to find your own tribe within a community. Because that tribe will end up acting like your support system, I think that's crucial. Find the people you resonate with most, right? So, that's why instead of using the word community, which has been thrown a lot out there, I would say one should focus on finding their tribe, because that tribe will end up help promote you, will help promote your work, get the word out there. I think that's important in order to gain some recognition out here in the space. These are the main points. I wanted to highlight.

[00:37:57] NorCal: They’re good points. Good points, for sure.

[00:37:59] BA: Yeah. Now…

[00:38:00] NorCal: Questions.

[00:38:02] BA: Oh, the most interesting part. I have so many, because I love to understand how people think. It fascinates me. Why do people think this way? So, I have some questions, which might intrigue you. I would say, let's start with what has been the most challenging time in your life?

[00:38:24] NorCal: There's been a couple of times, I guess. I don't know, I guess, kids are challenged initially getting used to that. But 10 years ago, when my wife and I started a business for her, there’s a lot of work. We're at the office at, like, 8:30 in the morning and staying until 11, 12 at night, trying to get things set up and going. It was like a year of that. There's just a lot of work. It was good times. Because I mean, it was a lot of work, it’s good, though, because I mean, you working on becoming your own boss.

[00:38:56] BA: That's very true. I can imagine the struggle. I can relate to it, as well, especially when my father passed away. I had to take over the business. It's like, you can feel the burden on you. Like, “Oh, god, okay.” Now, everything rests on your shoulder. It's quite a lot of responsibilities you have, especially to run a business. It's not easy. So, I can relate to that. What do you do differently from other people?

[00:39:23] NorCal: I like to think that I'm kind of a contrarian to begin with. I don't know. I mean, I'm left handed. I don't know if that has to do with it, too. But what do I do differently?

[00:39:35] BA: It's a tough one.

[00:39:38] NorCal: I mean, I guess I like to just go against the trends, usually. I mean, that's why I got into crypto and everyone said “You're wasting your money”. And I was like, “I don't know. It seems like it's pretty interesting. It's seems like an amazing technology.” Over the years, I've had friends like, “You should cash out.” I’m like, “No, I think I should put in more.”

[00:39:59] BA: So, how long you’ve been in this journey for, in the crypto space?

[00:40:03] NorCal: Since like ’14.

[00:40:05] BA: Okay. Wow. That's amazing.

[00:40:08] NorCal: Or ‘13 when Mt. Gox was crashing down, crashing and burning.

[00:40:13] BA: Okay. It's quite some time. Wow, that's amazing. You've seen the entire lifecycle almost of the crypto space.

[00:40:22] NorCal: Close. I mean, I missed the first couple few years, but…

[00:40:25] BA: Wow, okay. I have a scenario for you and want to see how it goes out. You have a really close friend of yours, and who was about to propose to someone he loves. He asks you to record that special moment for him. You hit that record button, and as he gets on his knees, and is about to propose, she says, “No.” Do you stop recording or do you continue recording?

[00:40:51] NorCal: I would probably stop recording at that point. I mean, I got the “no” in there.

[00:41:01] BA: Oh, God, and would you delete it if he asks you to?

[00:41:04] NorCal: I mean, it's for him. Whatever he wants to do with it. You know what? I wouldn't even delete it. I would give him the SD card. This is yours. You do with it what you need to.

[00:41:14] BA: Oh, my god. I was like, “Okay, this is really fascinating to know would you take it.” All right, what is your most treasured memory?

[00:41:25] NorCal: Oh, man, like, three come to mind. Wedding day was awesome, and then, the birth of each of my kids. When you first hold them, it's pretty crazy.

[00:41:39] BA: I can imagine. It's a beautiful feeling, I would say.

[00:41:42] NorCal: Yeah. It's a very emotional experience. It's crazy.

[00:41:44] BA: Okay, next question. If you were able to live to the age of 90, and retain either the mind or a body of a 30-year-old for the last 60 years, which one would you want?

[00:41:57] NorCal: The mind.

[00:41:58] BA: Alright, that's good. I would do the same. If you can see a measuring scale above people's heads, what would you want the scale to measure? I mean, would you like it their status in society? Their level of happiness? Their wealth? What exactly? What scale would you like to see?

[00:42:15] NorCal: Oh, it'd be like, how happy they are. Or how satisfied they are. Because then you'd be like, “Okay, well, that person probably genuine versus someone that's not satisfied.” 

[00:42:27] BA: True. I would have a trust scale.

[00:42:31] NorCal: That'd be a good one.

[00:42:32] BA: Yeah, I just see. All right. How much can you trust them? Just imagine how much time you would save.

[00:42:40] NorCal: Huge amount of time.

[00:42:41] BA: Oh, man. So, pineapple on pizza?

[00:42:45] NorCal: I won't order it. I will eat it if it's my option. But I won't order it. It's not a favorite of mine.

[00:42:53] BA: Yeah, I don't mind it either. If you could wake up tomorrow having gained any one quality or ability, what would it be?

[00:43:01] NorCal: I mean, I'm pretty — like real life qualities or imaginary?

[00:43:09] BA: Anything. It could be even imaginary.

[00:43:11] NorCal: I think flying would be cool.

[00:43:12] BA: Oh, yeah. I would take that. You could fly all the way here, man.

[00:43:15] NorCal: True. True.

[00:43:17] BA: What advice would you give out to artists who haven't, let's say, who are having a tough time making a sale? Or like who are new to the space or who haven't sold out their collection? What advice would you have for them?

[00:43:36] NorCal: That’s tough. There's lots of factors. I mean, market cycle could be a factor. Pricing could be an issue. I mean, I think a lot could be more realistic with like what would you sell this for in a coffee shop or somewhere else versus, what the trend is in the crypto space. But there's a lot of variables there. And then just depending on like, how involved you are in the community.

[00:44:00] BA: Yeah. That's a big factor. I think that's one thing I've genuinely noticed. The more involved you are, the better known you become. The more time you spend at it, the better people get to know you. That's why generally, I remember, when I onboarded artists back in March, April, I remember how the community shrank because of the cycle. It did hurt me when I saw them leave or become inactive because they weren't fortunate enough to make sales, for example. So, they had other responsibilities, and I don't blame them.

Now, I'm actively onboarding a lot of female artists into the space. I already onboarded one. She is an amazing, amazing portrait photographer. One factor, which I definitely look at is not only how great their work is as an artist. Are they resilient? Are they, for example, supportive? Do they reshare other people's work? Because that's a really important factor to look into as well. Do they support others? There are many factors, not only just great work, but how are they as a human being? That's the biggest thing. Are they a community builder? So, this does play a role, I've noticed when it comes to NFT's, in this community we're in right now.

I mean, that's why I'm being you know, really, I would say, mindful whenever I'm onboarding any new artists in the space. But yeah, I think we have a long way to go. Definitely, when it comes to onboarding a lot of female artists, there's a massive disparity that exists. So, I'm just focusing on that now. But yeah, let's see. I think I've covered everything else, I guess. But yeah, I think I've covered mainly all the questions, I guess. I think we're good. Yeah, it was really good. Did you like the questions?

[00:45:46] NorCal: Yeah, they were good. They're good.

[00:45:48] BA: Awesome.

[00:45:49] NorCal: I had the consider them.

[00:45:50] BA: Oh, yeah. I think you will ask that next, I guess. I think regarding shout-outs, I guess.

[00:45:55] NorCal: Yeah, you have any shout-outs?

[00:46:56] BA: Yeah, I have a few. Where did it go? I would like to give a shout-out to a lot of artists and as well as collectors who have, let's say, brought the NFT community to where it is today. First is obviously yourself. I mean, you have done a lot for this space. There's no doubt about it. I would also like to give a shout out to this incredible human beings, humble, down to earth, I love him as a brother. And he is just like — he’s always out there not only supporting artists, unlike other collectors who come and go, he's always there. He's always there to help. I think I would also like to give a shout-out to Vince, to tactics. He's done a lot for the community, which has really brought it to where it is right now.

Also, shout-out to Cooper for running the Obscura down. I hope I said it right, Obscura. And they’re doing a phenomenal job there. Also, I would like to give a shout out to a lot of community, community builders, I would say. Laurie, she has done a phenomenal job on highlighting emerging artists in this space. Joshua, he's another one, amazing artists, like who's supportive, and he does space every now and then. You've got Glass Crown also. You've got Jessica. She does the storm chasing as well. Jessica, I'm really bad with names. I took them all down, I can't find it on my phone. I would say, David. Oh, yes, David is on top there. I will not be in NFT’s if it wasn’t for him. Who else can I give a shout-out to? There are so many names. Please forgive me. If you're listening to this, and I forgot your name, don't kill me. Boy, am I missing anyone? Oh, yeah. Cody Conk, great guy, another amazing photographer. Luis. I believe that's how I pronounce his name. Yeah, I think that's mainly it.

I missed out on any one, I'll find out when they kill me. I can't really think of who else is. And Jacob as well. Jacob is amazing. I don't know. I think these are the names.

[00:48:07] NorCal: That’s a good list.

[00:48:08] BA: That’s a good list. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, I think Keno. I think she's done phenomenal when it comes to marketing programs on spaces. Yeah, I think they're phenomenal. Without these community builders, there's no way NFT would be where it is right now.

[00:48:20] NorCal: Right. Baber, thank you for coming on. So much, thank you.

[00:48:24] BA: Oh, no, thank you for having me here. I think we covered quite a lot, I would say.

[00:48:32] NorCal: Yeah, we did. We did. It was a good one.

[00:48:34] BA: Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, man for having me here. It's been an absolute honor and pleasure. We'll definitely catch up again soon.

[END]