NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
Eric Paré and Kim Henry
Combining Passions to Create NFTs with Eric Paré and Kim Henry
Episode 59: Show Notes.
Today we are joined by two incredible artists in their own right, who have joined forces to create spellbinding NFTs. Photographer, Eric Paré and contemporary dancer, Kim Henry have combined their passions for performing art, photography, travel, and light painting to create unique imagery blending light paintings and landscape photography. In this episode, we discover how they landed on their respective art forms, how they learned about NFTs, and how they distribute commercial rights for the images they create. The pair share their astonishing achievements and goals for the future, as well as some of the best advice they’ve ever received, NFT-related and otherwise. Tune in to hear about Eric and Kim’s unique way of being and working, and their tips for artists entering the NFT space!
Key Points From This Episode:
• Introducing photographer, Eric Paré and contemporary dancer, Kim Henry.
• Eric and Kim’s first thoughts upon learning about NFTs.
• How they landed on their respective art forms.
• How Eric’s background in programming aids his current pursuits.
• Eric and Kim’s unique relationship with food.
• The best advice they’ve ever received.
• What makes their work feel like a vacation.
• Advice for artists entering the NFT space.
• Where Eric and Kim would choose to live if they weren’t based in Montreal.
• Their achievements and future goals.
• The legal technicalities of photograph copyrights and ownership.
• How Eric and Kim distribute commercial rights and usage for various projects.
• The difference between delivering for a job versus selling work that you create for yourself.
• How agencies tend to discover their work.
• How mass adoption of the NFT space is predicted to take place.
• How Sloika is helping photographers get into NFTs.
• What Eric and Kim have been working on most recently!
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Eric Paré and Kim Henry on Sloika
EPISODE 59
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:32] NORCAL: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the next episode of NorCal and Shill. Today's guests are Eric Paré and Kim Henry. Photographer, Eric Paré and contemporary dancer, Kim Henry have built a lifestyle of combining passions for performing art, photography, travel, and light painting. Exploring the world with their light painting tubes, they create unique imagery mixing light painting and landscape photography in magnificent locations, sharing every single tip about their techniques along the way. When they are not on the road, you can find them performing studio photography in Montreal, where they captured dance using 176 cameras on a full 360-degree setup, mixing studio and outdoor photography allow them to continue pushing their limits while keeping the balance between those complementary aspects of their art. Their work has been featured on CNN, MTV, BBC, and TEDx. They have worked on large-scale campaigns with Audi, Apple, Adobe, HP, ESPN, Intel, Canon, and Microsoft. Some recent projects brought them and their team to Coachella, Panorama, CES, South by Southwest, Exposure, and the Olympic Games.
Everyone, please welcome, Eric and Kim.
[EPISODE]
[00:02:04] NORCAL: Hey, Eric and Kim. Welcome to the podcast. How're you doing today?
[00:02:08] EP: Hello.
[00:02:08] KH: We're good. We're super happy to be here.
[00:02:10] NORCAL: Oh, good. I mean, this is a good surprise, kind of planned.
[00:02:16] KH: Kind of planned.
[00:02:17] NORCAL: I knew you guys were coming in across the US, doing like a big U, or a circle, I should say because you're going to go back across Canada. But yeah, it's like, “Hey, you should try and meet up in person, and maybe do a podcast, and maybe just have some coffee, or dinner, or something. We'll see.”
[00:02:38] KH: Or maybe shoot.
[00:02:40] EP: Or maybe shoot.
[00:02:40] NORCAL: Or maybe shoot. That is a possibility tonight.
[00:02:44] EP: I want to see you with the tube, swinging the whole thing.
[00:02:49] NORCAL: Feel like I’m going to break something. I don’t know. We'll see. It will be fun. Probably a lot of learning. I need some pro tips before we do it.
[00:02:57] EP: It’s so easy.
[00:03:01] NORCAL: Now, you can’t keep – there's a barrier to entry and it's really complicated.
[00:03:07] EP: Well, the complicated part, I'm going to handle it, but then you hold the tube, and you’re going to see, it’s super easy.
[00:03:14] NORCAL: All right, perfect. So you guys, how was your drive through California?
[00:03:19] EP: Great. We saw the Pines, fruits. It was beautiful.
[00:03:23] KH: It was all new because we spent more than three weeks in the valley, and the desert for a month and a half.
[00:03:23] EP: It was a shock yesterday. We went from 40 Celsius to 12, I think, which is cold.
[00:03:43] NORCAL: Oh, man. Yeah, that is a change. That was in Tahoe.
[00:03:48] EP: Yeah, in Tahoe, it was cold.
[00:03:50] NORCAL: Okay. Yeah. I haven't even looked at the weather and what the weather is like in Tahoe, but yeah, it's been warm here though. It's warm where we are for sure. Today, it was warm for me.
[00:04:02] EP: That secret location.
[00:04:04] NORCAL: In the secret location. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you guys made it safely. Do you guys have a hardware wallet?
[00:04:10] EP: As a fashion item.
[00:04:11] NORCAL: As a fashion you do have. All right. All right. Hopefully that one's empty.
[00:04:19] KH: As we knew we were coming here. I was like, “Well, hey, Eric, maybe you should, you know, set it up. So he decided to bring it for the whole trip, thinking that at some point, we would have time and we did not because we were shooting every day.
[00:04:34] EP: Every night.
[00:04:34] NORCAL: You’re working.
[00:04:35] KH: Yep. I do have one. I remember when I started to learn about crypto a year ago, I was like, “Oh, Eric. I need to buy a hardware wallet. It’s really important.” He was like, “Well, you don't have crypto. You don't have NFT, so there's no rush.”
[00:04:56] NORCAL: Right, right.
[00:04:58] KH: So as soon as it was relevant, I got mine.
[00:05:02] NORCAL: Perfect.
[00:05:03] EP: Well, she bought me this one.
[00:05:05] NORCAL: Yeah.
[00:05:06] EP: It is nice, right?
[00:05:06] NORCAL: It is.
[00:05:07] EP: My color.
[00:05:08] NORCAL: I didn't even realize that they came in those colors.
[00:05:11] EP: Yeah. Now you know.
[00:05:13] NORCAL: Maybe I should pick up one. I'll just talk to J&P and be like, “Hey! Special colors.” What were your first thoughts when you guys heard about NFTs?
[00:05:25] EP: That's about 16 months ago, people were talking about that on my Instagram post. They were like, “Oh, Eric. This is going to be a good NFT.” I was like, “Oh, no, no. I'm too busy on TikTok. I’m making TikTok videos because things were going wild over there back then for me.” Always putting a lot of energy on TikTok, and was not into learning something new. What a mistake. I missed a big wave in summer 2021. But at some point, of course, I understood what it was about. So I talked to her, “What we have there could be this, that.” In September, so a year ago, I started to mint. It was well in the beginning, and been playing in the space since then. Crypto is new for us, so we started to learn so many things, because of the NFTs.
[00:06:19] NORCAL: It’s a huge learning curve. I mean, there's so much to learn. There's a lot to learn. It’s a deep rabbit hole, if you want to go down that.
[00:06:26] KH: Yeah, exactly. Then, you start to learn and you think you know, and then it changes. It keeps changing.
[00:06:33] NORCAL: True. Why did you choose art? I guess, I could access to both of you, so why did you choose art photography? Then after that, how did you get into dance?
[00:06:44] EP: Really, I didn't really choose that thing. This is just what I do. It's deep in me. I have to create things. It's been like that forever for me. But I mean, to deck also, and I mix both using tons of cameras or bunch of things I have at the studio. Been building this life forever. This is what I do.
[00:07:06] NORCAL: I like it.
[00:07:06] KH: For me, well, I guess I – I grew up like in a family where there are no artists per se, but there's an artistic sense. I remember my grandfather was playing accordion, and I would be like super excited, very. I would basically get so excited that I would vomit when I would hear it. I was – I loved it so much. Did I just say that on the –
[00:07:33] NORCAL: That is good. It’s good.
[00:07:35] KH: Good thing, I don't do that anymore. Now, I'm okay. I'm recovered. So yeah, but I was mostly into sport growing up, like I did competitive gymnastics for nearly 10 years.
[00:07:45] NORCAL: Oh, wow.
[00:07:46] KH: I had like – like I say, I really loved to do physical stuff. But then I got into dance, actually when I was maybe 19 years old. That's pretty late for a dancer. But before going to a university, I wanted to take a year off, and try something that I knew I could not do afterwards. And you know, like when you do like the serious stuff, which is going in science and stuff. So I took a year off, and I moved to New York, and took like six months of like full-time dance classes, just for fun, to do something else and like have that check off my list, I guess. That’s it. I never stopped. I never – basically never went to the plan A, which was like to do like that serious stuff.
[00:08:38] NORCAL: Plan A never happened. I like it.
[00:08:40] EP: But while you were doing this like in New York, and dancing, did you ever think about having your own project like you're doing now?
[00:08:47] KH: Not really, because in my mind, like it was not an option of a serious career. Like dancing was something you do as a hobby, right? Until I realized that, no, it was actually possible and it was an artistic medium, and a creative outlet that was actually mine. That was the one that I wanted to explore. So yeah, I guess it was a naive thought at first that, well, maybe it's possible, and I never stopped.
[00:09:21] NORCAL: Thinking about jobs. What jobs have you done along the way?
[00:09:26] EP: I am a programmer.
[00:09:26] NORCAL: Oh, yeah?
[00:09:27] EP: Yeah, I code.
[00:09:28] NORCAL: Oh, that's awesome.
[00:09:29] EP: Well, I'm kind of retired because –
[00:09:31] NORCAL: Right. Got into something else.
[00:09:32] EP: Yeah. Well, my team fired me basically, because I called the first 360 multicamera system we have at the studio. I did it myself about 11 years ago. But I just got too busy, so many things to handle. So I hires two programmers, and that’s – so now, I'm not coding, but I know how to manage a team and make the software to do what I’m looking for. I was a C#, SQL developer.
[00:10:00] NORCAL: Wow, okay. What jobs have you done along the way?
[00:10:07] KH: So I worked at a restaurant for about a day.
[00:10:11] EP: And broke everything.
[00:10:12] NORCAL: A day, all right.
[00:10:13] KH: Yeah, I broke a few glasses, I was pretty clumsy. On the same day, I got an offer to work, it's called the –
[00:10:20] EP: Youth center.
[00:10:20] KH: Yeah, like a youth center. So it's kind of a community center with teenagers. I was in charge of the artistic and sport, like part of the – so I jumped into that. I did that for about five years while studying dance and doing other projects. I really loved it.
[00:10:40] NORCAL: That's awesome. If you guys were an animal, what would you be and why?
[00:10:45] EP: I’d be a chimney swift. Do you know what that is?
[00:10:48] NORCAL: No.
[00:10:49] EP: It's a bird.
[00:10:49] NORCAL: Okay.
[00:10:50] EP: It gets super excited during the blue hour, and that’s the same from me with the light painting. This is our prime time. This is where we get this deep blue color in the sky. Like when I see the chimney swift. I think about it like that, the moment we have to be out, and work. It last just for 15 minutes, and it’s once a day. I guess it's twice a day, but morning is harder.
[00:11:15] NORCAL: Right.
[00:11:15] EP: So we do evenings.
[00:11:18] NORCAL: All right. I like that. I like that. I didn’t even know that.
[00:11:20] KH: For me, I kept changing my mind. If you ask me the same question tomorrow, it's going to be different. But today, I would choose like Desert Fox. Either kit fox or Fennec fox.
[00:11:33] NORCAL: Yeah. Okay.
[00:11:34] KH: So I don't know. They're one, in the desert, in the sand, and I feel like this is an environment in which I feel home, at home.
[00:11:43] EP: I don't know why are you saying that, because we met one a few days ago and didn't end up well.
[00:11:48] KH: Well, I know. But like, they're curious, but they're kind of shy. So I feel like this is, yeah. This is me.
[00:11:57] EP: Yeah. So we met at fox in the desert, and it looked cute at first, but then we saw, it was chewing on my sandal, destroying it, and then peeing on it.
[00:12:10] NORCAL: It’s just letting you know, “Hey, I'm taking over.”
[00:12:12] KH: Exactly. Like you're in my place.
[00:12:16] NORCAL: Do you guys have a favorite food?
[00:12:17] KH: I'm going to take that one for both of us, I think.
[00:12:20] NORCAL: Oh, okay.
[00:12:22] KH: I don't think we have a favorite food per se. We like to eat in general, but as an experience, like we've been eating once a day for a while now.
[00:12:34] EP: Two or three years now.
[00:12:34] KH: So when we eat, we feast. It's like, it's an event. So I would say, anything that takes time, like a hot [inaudible 00:12:45] or hot pot. Or if we're not cooking, it's like Korean barbecue or something. Something that you can take your time, enjoy the experience, and like just disconnect from everything else.
[00:12:58] NORCAL: It’s an experience, besides just the food. Got it. What's been the best piece of advice you have been given?
[00:13:07] EP: My father told me so many times to work hard, and think to get it right. Yeah, I don't have a TV. I always work, but I always feel like I'm on vacation because the work I do is playing with toys. It’s either with my light painting stuff or in my multicamera studio. I always feel like it's work, but it's something I really enjoy. There's that mix also between doing studio work, which feels like I'm doing something easy because it’s – I’m at home, it’s a controlled environment. But then, when we go out on the road to work in the field, it feels like it's vacation because we're going somewhere, but still, it's work. So I think we balance that and super fun.
[00:13:54] NORCAL: Oh, nice. All right.
[00:13:56] KH: I have two, I think. The first one, it's similar to what Eric said. My mom kept telling me that, if you choose to do something, you have to give it your best. Like do it, do it the best you can. So I guess, it comes up to like doing things wholeheartedly, and like working hard, and commitment, and stuff like that, or don't do it. So choose what you want to do and invest your time and energy. So that would be the first. The second one, I don't remember where – it's something that probably is in many different sources, but is to focus and act on what I can control.
[00:14:45] NORCAL: Yeah.
[00:14:46] KH: So more like a philosophy, I guess.
[00:14:48] NORCAL: Yeah. Don't worry about the things you can't control.
[00:14:51] KH: Exactly.
[00:14:52] NORCAL: Got it.
[00:14:52] KH: It's a waste of time and energy.
[00:14:54] NORCAL: Solid. Those are good pieces of advice. Do you have advice for artists coming into the NFT space?
[00:15:02] EP: I was in a discussion with a friend yesterday by messenger. I said, I asked him because he’s super good for a refer. I asked him, “Did you start to look at NFTs?” He answered, “Not yet. I checked a little bit. It’s easy, right? You just upload a few images.” I was like, “Okay, yeah.” Everything has been said, we know how to teach these photographers how to get in, but how to make sure they get that message is something else. Because even if we've been saying the same thing, like take your time, look at it, build your community. All these tips have been said for a year now. Okay? But these messages are not going to these photographers. They are not still in the NFTs.
[00:15:50] NORCAL: Yeah.
[00:15:51] EP: Maybe you have a tip about that, how we can make sure they know before it's too late, before they lazy mint or before they do something that they're going to regret.
[00:16:01] NORCAL: Yeah. I mean, if you're not willing to take the time, and then kind of look around the space before you just jump in, I mean, you're definitely going to make mistakes.
[00:16:10] EP: Yeah. First thing will be to talk to friends that are already in the space.
[00:16:14] NORCAL: Yeah, for sure. That would be a good starting point to talk to people that are in the space.
[00:16:19] KH: Yeah. What can I add to that? I guess, yeah. Be curious. Be curious to learn, and don't be afraid to ask questions, ask for help. Yeah, I guess, explore.
[00:16:35] NORCAL: There's a lot of helpful people in this space. You never know unless you ask and worst case, you just get a no.
[00:16:42] KH: Exactly, and probably like someone made that mistake before you, before, so you can take advantage of that experience that is already there.
[00:16:53] NORCAL: Right. For sure.
[00:16:54] KH: Do you have one? I know you have plenty, and we've heard you like – but do you have –
[00:16:59] NORCAL: Advice for new artists?
[00:17:00] KH: Yeah. Something that you would advise today?
[00:17:02] NORCAL: I mean, I'm along the same lines as like, take your time. Definitely look around the space. Mint on your own contract, because there's – at this point, I feel like there's no excuse why you shouldn't be doing that. Because that is your signature, basically, on the art versus like [inaudible 00:17:20] contract or foundation contract. Nowadays, I mean, on foundation even, you can use your own contract. So own contract for sure once you're ready for that. If you could live or move anywhere, where would you live and why?
[00:17:36] EP: We live in Montreal currently, and it's a good base. As we travel a lot, it's always fun to go somewhere. But to come back, because the quality of life is so great in Montreal. I wouldn't live anywhere else, but you're my home, you're my home. So I just want to be working –
[00:18:00] NORCAL: Got it. All right. That's fair. That's fair. I like it.
[00:18:04] KH: Yeah. Maybe to complement, I think we love Montreal and it's a great place to be. I love like going through the seasons and stuff. But that implies that we can travel because I feel like we need that for what we create. But also like, I love to travel, we both do. So if we could not, let's say we could not, okay, then probably it would be somewhere in the states in Utah or like driving distance from a lot of desert and nature.
[00:18:39] EP: That would Moab or Vegas.
[00:18:42] NORCAL: Vegas, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:45] EP: Not that we want to live in Vegas, but this is this, like a center, [inaudible 00:18:49]. You go to a lot of places.
[00:18:52] NORCAL: Okay. All right. So somewhere close to the desert. I'm curious. What would you make if you had an unlimited budget?
[00:19:02] EP: If you would have asked me that question 10 years ago, I would have described what I have now. The studio, that life that I've been building for that long. But being there and now, I see all of the mistakes that I made, things that I've never thought about. Because, yes, I have a team, but each of them is so important that if someone goes sick or leaves for vacation, a long vacation, I don't have any other options. So being at that point requires me to go three times bigger in 10 years. Of course, the technology is changing. So I don't allow myself to for that kind of question, because it's not realistic. But what I'm going to work for is just to improve what I currently have, which is the three studios. I want bigger ones because there are some limitations. Better cameras because they're getting old now. I started to collect cameras eight years ago for that specific model. I have 400 of them now, but they're getting a bit – also, I will have to upgrade at some point. Yeah, but it's massive investments.
[00:20:11] NORCAL: It is.
[00:20:12] EP: So yeah. Unlimited money makes me think about that. But I'm going there anyway, just with the work that we create at the studio with the team.
[00:20:22] KH: I would add to that, probably like place where we can put all our creative expression or like all in one place. We already have like the 360 studio, and 3D scanning. But I would probably add to that space, like a gallery space, and a place for live performances, for dance, and a place for research, and have like artists come in, and like residencies, and stuff. So it creates kind of a community in the creative building, or however I would call it.
[00:21:00] NORCAL: Yeah, that'd be fun. If Eric takes the shot, and you're in it, Kim, and the camera is owned by the company, whose photo is it?
[00:21:11] EP: Technically, as I press the button, I have the copyright, but it's her image. Okay. So if I don't have a model release, she still has rights, I cannot use the image commercially. So that's the legal part.
[00:21:25] NORCAL: Okay. All right.
[00:21:27] EP: Okay? But of course, we have our way of working right. We've been working together for very long. Most of our projects are common, like the night reflection correction. She's dancing, I'm doing the – she’s staying still, but she’s taking a dance move, and I’m doing the light painting behind her. Been minting for a long time these images. I don't know if I should go in there, but like, technically, I pay all the expenses. I pay her back a percentage on each sale. But we started to jam about this idea, what's left for the dancer? Because for us, it's easy, like we share correctly. But like in a dancer, photographer, or model-photographer relationship, or just contract or any project, what's left for the dancer or their model in an NFT project? Not much, I don't know.
So yes, you can do splits on foundation, things like that. But I wanted to push that further as we have so many projects in common. She started to have some really deep and profound ideas about new projects. I was like, “Okay. This is going to be yours. I'm giving you all of the commercial rights for that. I'm going to take the picture based on what you’re asking me. So this is her project now. So we're trying to just build that different way of working, where she really owns everything, like the commercial usage. She's minting on her own contract, et cetera.
[00:23:01] NORCAL: Right. I definitely noticed that, because I noticed that there was work under you, Eric, and then I saw separately, there's work from you. There is all these different like issues with model versus photographer, and like who has the rights and everything. But I mean, there's also, I guess, there's your vision, Kim, and like you bringing that to vision, and you're like, could pay the photographer to take the photo type thing. I guess they sign off on that, technically. I mean, I guess your situation is a little bit different than out in the real world where you're working with someone you hired versus someone that is your partner.
[00:23:41] EP: Yeah, I work with other dancers. I've been doing that for probably two years now. Where I'm going to share a folder where I have all of the images that are final for posting, and they can post it on their social media. Sometimes I have a subfolder, that it's called “For you.” These are images that they can use commercially, they can add whatever they want on it. No need to mention. Because it's hard for them, like they need content. I want to be useful in my work, because I'm using these images for my promotion and I want them to have also some images.
[00:24:19] NORCAL: Yeah. Nice. I like that. Do you have any questions for me?
[00:24:22] EP: We do have 20 questions.
[00:24:23] NORCAL: Perfect.
[00:24:24] KH: How much time do you have?
[00:24:26] NORCAL: Well, until blue hour, I guess.
[00:24:31] KH: The first one is, are you conscious of the impact you have, like for artists, but like larger than that, I would say like in people's life? How does it impact you or how did it change if it had an impact?
[00:24:47] EP: When you go to bed at night, how do you feel about that?
[00:24:51] NORCAL: It's weird to think about for me at least, because I'm like, I didn't – when I first started and still even now, I'm like, didn't come into this to make a name for myself. I just came in. I was enjoying and enjoying the friendships or conversations I was having. That's it. I hear people say like, “Oh, you're making such an impact.” I'm like, “I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just here enjoying it. I give people my opinion on stuff if they ask for it.” But yeah, I don't know. I guess, also, because it is online, it's kind of in a way kind of separated. I don't visually see impacts on other people's lives as much as like if it was in person.
[00:25:41] EP: Yeah. What I can tell you is that, we get a lot of brand deals. This is partly how we make money, but we pay for everything. I never got that physical reaction. Something happened when I saw that you got one of our pieces on Foundation?
[00:25:57] NORCAL: Oh, yeah. I cannot describe that. This was something different. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Something else happening here.
[00:26:02] NORCAL: Oh, yeah. I mean, that is definitely different. I mean, it's definitely a different way of – you're making the art that you like, both of you, and instead of what the client wants. I guess it's delivering for a job versus selling work that you create for yourself that someone else appreciates.
[00:26:19] EP: The way it's worked for us is that we create our personal work, and sometimes it gets viral on social media. This is how agencies are seeing our work, and then they hire us for campaigns. As we've been doing that personal work for a long time, we have content for NFTs, we never plan for this. But now, we just continue.
[00:26:42] KH: I remember you were talking about that a few months ago, like is your wife involved in collecting with you? I know, back then, I think you said not really. But I'm curious if that has changed.
[00:26:55] NORCAL: It's still not a whole lot. I mean, she has picked out a couple pieces here and there. But overall, she's like, “You do you, and that's it. Not much, she's not involved very much.
[00:27:09] EP: So you don't show what you just purchased. “Look at this image, it’s so cool.”
[00:27:14] NORCAL: I mean, I'll show her stuff. Yeah, definitely show her stuff, and she'll see the physicals when they arrive. But she's like, “Another box.”
[00:27:25] EP: You receive a lot of those?
[00:27:26] NORCAL: Yeah, I have received a few of them.
[00:27:30] KH: How many so far?
[00:27:31] NORCAL: I don’t know. It’s just too many to count.
[00:27:34] EP: So we're not going to send you anything. We're on the road anyway, but we brought you a tube and a couple of postcards if you’re interested.
[00:27:41] NORCAL: Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean –
[00:27:43] KH: Yeah. This is for you to start playing with your daughter.
[00:27:46] NORCAL: Okay.
[00:27:46] KH: Or just put it on the wall. You can put a flashlight and it creates beautiful colors.
[00:27:53] NORCAL: Okay. Well, if I put it on the wall, you both have to sign it then.
[00:27:57] EP: How?
[00:27:59] NORCAL: You got to get a Sharpie, I guess. I don't know.
[00:28:02] EP: Ah, that's good point.
[00:28:03] NORCAL: I have to learn some camera techniques tonight.
[00:28:06] EP: Yeah.
[00:28:07] KH: There are plenty of us who could help you.
[00:28:10] NORCAL: Right.
[00:28:12] EP: But be careful. This is so addictive. Once you start, you never stop.
[00:28:16] NORCAL: All right. All right. That's fair. It's a fair warning.
[00:28:19] KH: I have one last question. Do you read or listen to audiobook or podcast?
[00:28:25] NORCAL: Yes-ish.
[00:28:27] KH: Okay. My question is, what have you been reading or listening to lately that had either, I don't know, had you reflected upon or something that you like to share?
[00:28:42] NORCAL: Yeah. I mean, okay. So, man, I'm blanking on even the podcast I was – so the last podcast I listened to was – man, it was about onboarding people into the NFT space. It was on – I’m going to have to look it up, but it was really good. Talking about that, the way that the mass adoption is going to happen, is people first owning NFTs. Then they'll be able to sell that for crypto in the future. That's basically geared towards gaming mainly, and then potentially expanding from there. I think one kind of random example they use is like, somehow getting a piece of art outside of the gaming industry, but that was – Man, I can't believe I'm blanking on all the names on it. That was about it. I don't listen to a ton of podcasts.
[00:29:35] KH: Well, I guess you're a busy, busy guy.
[00:29:38] NORCAL: Because I listen to each one of these podcasts again, to make sure it sounds good, and that's about it, usually. So I live in a small town. I don't have a lot of driving time. When I'm at home, I'm usually with my kids. If I drive somewhere, which two weeks ago, a week ago, I went to San Francisco for a night to watch a movie. It's a three-hour drive, so I was able to listen to some stuff then. But other than that, I'm not usually listening to anything.
[00:30:16] EP: You know, people are going to drive radius of three hours around San Francisco. They might fall in the ocean.
[00:30:21] NORCAL: I mean, I could live in Tahoe. Fresno, maybe. I don't know if that's close.
[00:30:28] KH: Or how fast or slow you drive.
[00:30:31] NORCAL: Right. Whether I took a car or a helicopter.
[00:30:35] KH: A jet.
[00:30:35] EP: Bicycle.
[00:30:35] NORCAL: Bicycle.
[00:30:41] KH: Nothing that comes to mind now.
[00:30:46] NORCAL: If you guys have any shoutouts, or this – actually might be putting this on next week. Do you have any shoutouts or anything happening after next week you want people to know about?
[00:30:58] EP: Nothing. The thing happening next week, but I want to shout to the Sloika team. They've been so great with us. Have BAM in our city. They're helping so many photographers to get into NFTs, and they educate so they know how to get started. They require the photographers to get their ENS name prior to minting.
[00:31:23] NORCAL: Oh, wow. Yeah.
[00:31:24] EP: And we were probably in the second mint back in September of last year, and we minted 12 series of nine images over there. They're really, really good, so they're doing a lot for the photographic community.
[00:31:38] NORCAL: Nice.
[00:31:38] KH: Yeah. They're very helpful and very good people.
[00:31:40] NORCAL: Nice. That's awesome to hear.
[00:31:42] KH: Do we have anything? No. Well, we've been on the road creating for the past month and a half.
[00:31:49] EP: Eight terabytes of data.
[00:31:52] KH: Yeah. So new pieces will come out probably – we won't be back home before November, so nothing before that.
[00:32:01] EP: You saw a few actually. We sent you a few –
[00:32:03] NORCAL: Oh, yeah.
[00:32:04] KH: A few work in progress, yeah. So yeah, but maybe, just at large shout out to the Performance and Dance Community and the New Neighborhood. These are two communities that I'm involved in, that both use the body as their medium of work. So yeah, a lot of amazing people.
[00:32:26] NORCAL: Well, cool. Eric, Kim, thank you for your time, and thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.
[00:32:31] EP: Thank you so much.
[00:32:32] KH: It was such a pleasure. Thank you.
[00:32:35] NORCAL: Well, you have a good day and we'll talk soon.
[END]