Jordan Banks

Jordan Banks

Episode 61: Show Notes

Welcome back to another incredible installment of NorCal and Shill! Joining us today is London’s very own travel, landscape, and adventure photographer, Jordan Banks. Jordan has over 20 years of experience, shooting assignments in high-end content for travel, tourism, and lifestyle brands and companies. After he shares how he is enjoying his time in the Adirondacks, Jordan explains his hardware wallet and the multi-laptop system that goes with it. We hear about what he first thought of NFTs, how he started his thrilling career in photography, why he is fascinated by capturing the human condition, and the few jobs he’s worked outside of photography. Then, you’ll find out why Mexico and dolphins are Jordan’s favorites, why he was tentative in applying a great piece of advice, how he’d advise new artists entering the NFT space, and the questions that he has locked and loaded for our host. You don’t want to miss this one! 

Key Points From This Episode:

•    Introducing today’s guest, esteemed photographer, Jordan Banks. 

•    How Jordan is enjoying his time in the Adirondack Mountains.

•    His hardware wallet status and multi-laptop system.

•    What Jordan thought when he first heard about NFTs. 

•    How he got into art and photography. 

•    A fascination with the human condition and capturing raw moments. 

•    Grocery store, hardware, a summer of filing, and hard carrying. 

•    The animal Jordan would be, and why.

•    Why Mexican street food is an absolute winner. 

•    His father’s slow-burning advice that ended up being the best he’s ever received. 

•    Jordan’s advice to new NFT artists. 

•    Mexico winning yet another category. 

•    Jordan questions Guy on his photography endeavor and whether he sees himself as an artist.  

•    Our guest gives shoutouts to those he reveres the most.


Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Jordan Banks

Jordan Banks on Twitter 

Jordan Banks on LinkedIn

Jordan Banks on Foundation 

Jordan Banks on SuperRare 

Jordan Banks on MakersPlace 

Jordan Banks on OpenSea 

Jordan Banks on National Geographic Traveler 

NorCal and Shill on Twitter

Transcript

EPISODE 61

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:32] NORCAL: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the next episode of NorCal and Shill. Today's guest is Jordan Banks. Jordan is a travel, landscape, and adventure photographer from London, with over 20 years’ experience shooting assignments in high-end content for travel, tourism, and lifestyle brands and companies. Through the years, his work has taken him to over 100 countries and provided him with the opportunity to shoot some of the world's most interesting and diverse locations and festivals. Everyone, please welcome, Jordan.

[EPISODE]

[00:01:07] NORCAL: Hey, Jordan. Welcome to the podcast. How you doing today?

[00:01:10] JB: I'm really good. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm in the Adirondacks at the moment in upstate New York trying to capture some fall colors, but I'm a little bit early. So I've got a bit of time just chilling, just driving around, checking it out, and enjoying myself really more than anything. I'm not getting too much time to create at the moment because it's just not the right conditions. But yeah, apart from that, I'm loving life. How about yourself?

[00:01:28] NORCAL: Nice. That sounds great. Just kind of having like a little vacation and just relaxing.

[00:01:28] JB: Yeah, exactly. I'm in an RV, so it's not super chilled. It's actually got cold, a little bit chilly at night, for heating and things. But yeah, it's good fun. It's nice to just be alone, be out in wilderness, and the Adirondacks is just like, I think six million acres of just, well, pretty much as raw wilderness apart from a few villages and towns. So it's really nice to be out here and get some time to myself, and just clear my head, and go hiking. 

Hopefully, the conditions will change a bit and I'll get some nice weather, and the cool colors will change, and I'll get a couple of nice images. But I've sort of given up a bit of hope now to be honest, I'm not sure what happened, but you never know.

[00:02:08] NORCAL: Yeah. I mean, it'll come.

[00:02:11] JB: Yeah, I can't force it. That's what I've learned over the years. You can't force it. Worst case, and I'm having a great time.

[00:02:17] NORCAL: Right. There you are. I mean, traveling, you can park where you want, have a nice lunch. It's a nice little benefit of an RV.

[00:02:23] JB: Yeah, exactly. Benefit for me from not having to check in anywhere. I've so often spent so much time just going between hotels. I have to find hotels and arrange bookings. This is just like the ultimate freedom for me. It's got that little bit more luxury than in a tent, actually, especially when it gets cold.

[00:02:41] NORCAL: Right. Do you have a hardware wallet?

[00:02:43] JB: I do, yes. I do, a Ledger. I'm not sure if there's other ones. There probably is, isn't it? I got a Ledger under advice from the people who onboarded me. Then I'm glad I did because I got to meet some of the team and well, I met with you as well, obviously, in New York, and I've got to know some of them. So yeah, I know how it works, like what I need to do. But I don't really understand the technology behind it. I'm still like, what is actually happening here? I'm not sure I need to understand the tech of it, really. Some of them know the process to keep everything safe and sound.

[00:03:13] NORCAL: Great. I mean, you can dive into all the like encryption and everything. But I mean, yeah, as long as you know the basics, that's all you need.

[00:03:21] JB: Yeah. I'm super scared of security, because it's just – I got scared by coming into the space, I wasn't ready for it at all. Then suddenly, everyone’s like, “You got to do this, you got to do this.” I was like, “Okay. Why would –?”

As I’m learning in the space, I couldn't understand how it could be so fraught with dangers, some scams and stuff, because I wasn't used to this sort of way of trading. Then you learn and obviously went through that process. I mean, fortunately, nothing's ever happened to me, but I'm still super scared. Even now, I have a laptop that controls it. So it goes from the ledger into a laptop that only does that. Then, everything goes into an actual wallet. So I've got this crazy little system of old laptops set up. I think it works and hopefully it's got that extra level of security.

I remember speaking to a person picked up my first-ever piece and he was still scared. He's like an OG, probably much like yourself. He's been dabbling in this since 2017. He said, I'm still scared to death every time I do a transaction. I was like, “Damn, it doesn't ever go away.” Which I was not happy to hear, but you know, it’s what it is.

[00:04:23] NORCAL: Yeah. I mean, I remember when I first started, I was like, we'd send a test transaction and then the actual transaction type thing. Now, I'm like, “Uh, I doubled check. It should be good.” But you guys, you do need to double-check it. If you don't, that's when things go wrong.

[00:04:42] JB: Yeah, I’m rigorous with the double checks. I remember reading – I don't drink, but everyone was like, “Make sure you're not tired, you're not drunk, you’re not stoned, you’re not anything, you're not distracted by children. Make sure that when you do anything, you are focused on that. Even if you only need five minutes to do it, but just concentrate on what you're doing.” I was like, that's a pretty solid piece of advice that I heard from someone.

[00:05:04] NORCAL: Right. Yeah. I mean, because it is a lot of responsibility. You are your own bank, so you got to make sure you are protecting it.

[00:05:12] JB: There's no one to call and complain.

[00:05:13] NORCAL: Right. No.

[00:05:15] JB: It's not like, “Well, take my call”, I can’t imagine.

[00:05:17] NORCAL: No, it's ultimately your fault, which sucks.

[00:05:21] JB: Yeah, it really does. With all the great things, there's always some slight downside, does it ever? You can't have everything perfect.

[00:05:29] NORCAL: Right. But I think, I mean, hopefully they work on some better UI stuff. So, people are like – when you'd sign a transaction it at least says, “Hey! You are about to do this.” That'd be nice. Instead of like, just code-type stuff, I don’t know what it’s called.

[00:05:43] JB: Real layman's terms of this is what's going to happen now. Okay, I get it. Rather than – because I still as well, if I have to take something out of a wallet, I still haven't done that many actual transactions. So it's not – I’m still not super confident. It's probably less than, I don't know, maybe less than 100, maybe slightly more, maybe. I don't know. But even if I'm just transferring from my hard wallet to my ledger, I tend to do it in – so there's five ETH, then I'll still do it in one ETH batches.

[00:06:09] NORCAL: Oh, yeah. 

[00:06:11] JB: Especially – I’m just like, “Oh! If I lose money, like it’s going to hurt. But if I lose five ETH, it’s really going to suck, you know.”

[00:06:16] NORCAL: Right. That’s so true.

[00:06:20] JB: And the gas, especially to ETH before the merger, was pretty low. So I was like, yeah, it's not cost – I mean, it’s worth that few dollars to just make sure that if you make a mistake, you don't lose everything. So far, so good. Knock on wood. 

[00:06:31] NORCAL: That's good. What were your first thoughts when you heard about NFTs?

[00:06:37] JB: My very, very first thoughts were like, “This is brilliant. This is exactly what I need for the art space.” Because I felt for a long time, the traditional art space is super, super antiquated, and just didn't really work, and I didn't like the fact that I was taking such high percentages off of us. We weren't connecting and there was no real input from the gallery side of things, or the sales side of things to the artist, and then obviously, to collectors. It wasn't something I really got too involved in. 

My initial thought was, “This is amazing.” Then I think, that was really when the news started to break, at least in the UK of NFTs of this is – it started to hit the headlines a little bit, so I delved into it. So I think it was about January, February time of 2020. Then, actually, my sort of initial thoughts once I joined the space were like, “This is a bit of a pyramid scheme,” if I’m totally honest. Obviously, I had no idea what I was coming into, what was going on. I was a complete – I'm still a rookie, but I mean, I was a complete rookie day one. 

Then it quickly became, as I started to learn the space and spoke to people and delve in, became obvious that my initial thoughts of actually this is great were the correct thoughts, and then the pyramid scheme type thing, if that's the right term. But well, actually, this isn't the way it's working at all. It could just look like that. 

I think you get blown away when you see the amounts of money going around for things, and people you never heard of, a project you never heard of. It just seemed crazy, and you're like, “This doesn't seem right.” But then you start to understand what's going on, and I sort of did in the space of about a month. I did a full circle from this is great, this is absolute scam, back around, this is better than I'd ever imagined. That's where I'm at today, really.

[00:08:15] NORCAL: Yeah. Well, I mean, there were scams, for sure. You just got to avoid them.

[00:08:19] JB: Yeah, totally. Luckily, I took it very slow, because I really didn't understand what I was doing. I was like – obviously, money involved in it. I sort of just stayed out of everything, and didn't really get involved in the space, apart from just listening and learning for a few months, really. I just sort of worked out what was going on, and tried to find out how it was working, and why it was working, and what was really going on. I think that massively helped me avoid the scams, but I didn't just delve in or believe everything I heard.

[00:08:47] NORCAL: Right. That's good. What brought you to art? How did you choose photography?

[00:08:52] JB: It's something I’ve not always done. I started wanting to be a sports scientist. I was big on sports. I used to play quite high-level cricket and rugby in the UK. For teenagers, high level, not quite England. But anyway, I realized I wasn't going to make it into like the big leagues as it were, and I was like, “How can I still be involved in sport?” So I decided, maybe I can do some coaching, physiotherapy. I went to sports science in college. 

I took a few photos just for fun, purely. This is back, it was all filmed so it was a bit of an expensive hobby, so it was nothing to it. It was just playing with your friends, just recording moments, and just capturing what was going on as you hang out with your friends. 

I went to college and it just didn't jive. It wasn't what I thought it was going to be. It just turned out it wasn't for me. Then I looked into it and they – instead of dropping out, they're like, “Hey, we can do other courses, anything else.”  Then they did a photography course. I was like, “Well, I kind of already do this.” I had a darkroom because my grandfather was quite into photography. He'd donated me all his old darkroom stuff, so I'd played around a little bit. 

I was like, “Okay, that sounds like an easy way to get some grades. If you want to go to a university, or college, or whatever. That’s a way forward.” That's when it started, but I never thought of it as a career. It was just something I did. I've captured moments, captured fleeting things, and just played with it really. 

Then, I knew I had a love for travel and just experiencing the world, so I decided to go out and capture the world, basically. I guess is how – when I started, I had a real interest in people and the way they interact with each other, with the world around them. Just a real fascination of different people, even just friends and cultures, and everything around humans, the way we work together just fascinated me. 

Then, as I got a little bit older, this was sort of during the time, I sort of lived – I was a teenager through the Balkan War. I'd seen some of this stuff. I mean, not in real life, but I witnessed it. It really fascinated me to try and take this to another level and tell stories, and really get that raw moment and capture images that could actually change the world, potentially. A bit arrogant of me probably to think that I could do that at 16, 17, 18 years old, but that's what I wanted to do.

I was drawn into sort of becoming a conflict, or war photographer, and social photographer, really, and that's where my whole journey started was that. Was just heading out into the world to try and capture those raw moments, and emotions between the way people connected. Yeah, that's what drew me to photography. I love the fact that whereas, art, I think, like a painting or sculpture is – I don't want to put photographers down, but a lot more skillful, I think, in a way, because you've got to – it's something I could never do. I couldn't portray it. But I also, it could be faked, is one thing that never really attracted me to it. 

I saw these paintings and was never like a gloomy painting. It was all always the place looking his best. I realized that photography caught that moment, and it could never be repeated. But you know, that what really stuck out to me, just capturing that moment in time that was there captured forever, and that would never be repeated. Not in exactly the same way anyway.

[00:11:55] NORCAL: Right. I like what drew you in to capture those raw moments and try and document things. 

[00:12:00] JB: I mean, because that's why I think photography was first invented, wasn't it? When they started to produce cameras back in – I can't remember the years, but it was a document, it was recording of life of people, or families, of everything that’s going on. Obviously, like any art form, that's going to evolve, and it has evolved massively to where we are today. 

But still, for me, it's still very much about capturing things as the camera sees it in its rawest form, and trying to show whether it's an emotion, or whether it's in a landscape, the beauty in the world. And even if it's sometimes not pretty to look at, it’s just intriguing, and just can keep you fixated on it for quite a long time, where you just really take in this moment. Photography just allowed me to do that.

[00:12:42] NORCAL: Right. I'm curious, what jobs have you done along the way to get to where you are, like from young to old?

[00:12:50] JB: I mean, I started off – when I was in college – what we call college, our college is like school, so from 16 to 18, so not university like you guys. I worked in filing for my dad's business during the summers. I had jobs just working in the local store, local hardware store, grocery, just doing anything to have a few pounds in my pocket and be able to go out and catch trains and hang out with my friends. Then, to get some money to get off the ground to start to build a portfolio to afford tickets to travel to get out in the world, and go and get to these places where I could shoot what I wanted to shoot.

I started hard carrying, which is a – I'm not sure if it’s the same in the US or it's a global term. But it's a person who carries bricks up the ladder or to the bricklayer. You get this like weird stick thing that holds – I can't remember how many now, like 24, 12 bricks, and you stick it on your shoulder, climb up the ladder, give the guy the bricks, go back down, do it again. That was a hard summer, but it's pretty well paid as well, because it's quite a labor-intensive job. You didn't need any skill set to do it; you just have to have a little bit of power. That was the last job I've ever done since then, and I was 18, I think. Yeah. Since then, it's been photography all the way.

I was out in Mexico, living over there on assignment. The assignment came to an end. It was diving in the caves in the cenotes in Mexico, in Yucatan, photographing the backs, some films, and documentaries, and stuff. That came to an end, I still wanted to stay there for a bit before my next assignment. I did take on some sort of freelance work, just guiding in the caves, because incredibly good money and it didn't really feel like work, and nobody could talk to me because I'm underwater. I was like, “This is the perfect job. I'm getting paid well. Nobody could bother me because we’re under the water.” But really, the only job I'd say I've ever like really had is photography and creating. I'm pretty lucky, I think, to have been able to manage to make that.

[00:14:38] NORCAL: Yeah. That’s awesome.

[00:14:40] JB: One of the things that allowed me to do it as well, I think I was very lucky in a place in time. I'm not sure if I'd be able to do it if I kept – not to put myself down, but it's a lot more challenging today to come into this market. Whereas back when it was all film, it wasn't quite a cool thing to do. Everyone, all my friends were like, “It’s a bit geeky, it’s not the coolest.” Whereas photography now, it’s become quite cool and quite trendy and people have realized how good a job it can be. I was lucky that I started just before that merge into really photography becoming accessible to the masses.

[00:15:10] NORCAL: Right. If you were an animal, what would you be and why?

[00:15:15] JB: I had to think about this for a while when I saw your questions. I’ve never really thought about it, but I think the one that just came straight to mind was a dolphin. That is an animal, isn't it? That's what you meant. It doesn’t have to be land animal, does it? Yeah. My reasons for that, I've always – I'm a Pisces, and I don't – I'm not a massive star person, but always felt attracted to water. 

If I don't feel well, I'm not feeling right in my head, or I just have a headache, or anything, I just go for a swim. I feel at peace and it sort of soothes me. There's that reason. I've always been fascinated with dolphins, I think that they're just forever young in the way that they – you see old dolphins, young dolphins, they're always playing around, and doing backflips, and playing in the waves, and doing whatever they're doing. I was like, that's how I feel about myself, that I don’t ever want to grow up, really. I just want be having fun and playing around when I’m 80, 90, 100, whatever it might be. Hopefully, I'll be able to, but – so yeah, a dolphin is what I’ll go with.

[00:16:12] NORCAL: Yeah, I like that. I like that. I like that young mindset. I mean, I think having kids, I'm like, “Oh, man. I get to play with some toys now.”

[00:16:22] JB: That’s good, isn't it? That's one of the things I love about kids as well. I was like, yeah, I get to play football, and go back out and do sports, and play with these toys, and all the stuff that they've got. If you do on your own now as a 40-year-old, they're like, “But why is that? What are you doing? He can't play cards.” Whatever it is. I play with little – my boy loves little fingerboard, like the skateboard.

[00:16:42] NORCAL: Yeah.

[00:16:42] JB: And I used to skate, skateboard when I was young at school. We used to hang out and skate, it was like the thing to do. We used to play with fingerboards, and I was like, “Oh, brilliant. We can play with these again. It's now acceptable. I'm not a grown man playing with a little toy.”

[00:16:42] NORCAL: Right. I know. I’m just waiting for my son to get a little older so we can get some more car stuff, like Hot Wheels and whatnot.

[00:17:06] JB: Yeah. Mine is just at the age now where he’s peaking, it's like really good fun. It's like having a little mate that’s just really immature. It's great.

[00:17:16] NORCAL: True. Do you have a favorite food?

[00:17:19] JB: Yeah, I do. Mexican food is my, but not like the what we get in Britain, or probably the US, not like real Mexican street food. Like just from – in New Mexico City, there's just a soul, and it's just raw, like really just very basic, few dollars, just a couple of tacos. That would be my go-to food every day of the week if I could. The street food in Mexico is just perfect.

[00:17:43] NORCAL: Yeah, I love Mexican food so much. I could eat all the time, like I eat rice and beans at least once a day, I think.

[00:17:51] JB: Nice. Yeah. I mean, it's something I think I've just grown with. I mean, I remember one thing as well, because obviously in the US, you’re so close to Mexico as well. It's been Mexican food for a while. In England, it was – it's really blown up now. But I remember when I lived out in Mexico, and I was like, “God, if somebody could actually open a restaurant and sell Mexican street food, or even just a good bit of any sort – even spruce it up a little bit, they'd make a killing.”

Then a few years after I get a call from my mother, “You should do it. You should do it.” I was like, “I don't know how to run a restaurant. I can't cook.” Then we come back to England, and then a few years later, it just absolutely blows up. She's like, “Look at all the money that people are making.” I was like, “Yeah, but they can actually cook as well and run a restaurant. They didn't just come up with this half-assed idea that, yeah, street taco, it'd be cool if we could get them home.”

[00:18:41] NORCAL: Right.

[00:18:42] JB: But it's good that I can now get Mexican food in England. It's not quite the same, but it’s good seconds. 

[00:18:46] NORCAL: It’s getting closer.

[00:18:47] JB: Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:50] NORCAL: What's the best piece of advice you've been given?

[00:18:52] JB: I have to really think about this as well, because I've been given so many. But I think the one that really – it took me a long time to actually undertake it as well. I'm not sure as why, I think it’s just because I refused to listen to it. My father was always telling me, “You just got to connect more, you've got to socialize more, you've got to put yourself out there. It's all about who you know, and just meeting people, and just getting connected to. You don’t know who they are, or where this might take you, but just having that ability to when you need something to happen, or need a favor, or need a piece of advice. or need to learn, if you know a lot of people, then there's just things can start to happen.” I was like, “Really? That sounds, I don't know, like I've got to put myself out there. I've got to make an effort.”

But soon as I started doing it in my business, like as a photographer, it just became absolutely essential. I just realized that just connecting with people is really priceless. It wasn't I wanted anything off them, it was just – I think I was quite lucky in the way that – I'm a people person, so I do like talking to people, and I'm always going back to why I wanted to be a photographer because I'm fascinated by people, and their story. Even if they're from exactly the same culture as me, or their friends, or whatever, I'm fascinated the way people think and the ‘why’ people do things that they do. I'd often find myself eavesdropping on people's conversations, not because I was nosy. I was just like, “Wow, that's like a little window into someone's life,” and it just fascinated me. I think that was a trait that really helped me with that piece, when I tried to undertake that piece of advice. I wasn't trying to fake anything. I was actually a very good listener, because I like to hear what people have to say and their stories.

I think if you're genuine like that, which I was without even trying, I just genuinely did care, and want to know what was going on, that really helped me become quite personal, and build a lot of contacts, and a lot of friends. I also had – because of that, I didn't just think that, I had to be in my sort of age group. I like to speak to people who are a lot older than me and a lot younger than me to just get their perspectives. I was never too arrogant to realize that. I mean, obviously people older, they know more. But often, you don't want to take advice when you say, I don’t know, 30. You don't think an 18-year-old might know anything, have anything useful, but I was like, no, I want to hear about their life. Suddenly, you start to realize that actually, they might not know everything, but they definitely lived a different life to you and they know things.

[00:21:01] NORCAL: Right, for sure.

[00:21:02] JB: Yeah. Just connecting with people, and socializing, and putting yourself out there was a huge piece of advice that my dad gave me, and one that I still live by. I think if we look at this space today, I mean, it's so true, isn't it? If you just sit, and don't talk to anyone in the Web3 space, then it's dead in the water. Whereas, building connections, and socializing with people, before you know it, things happen. Why we're here today, I guess.

[00:21:26] NORCAL: Right. Do you have any advice for artists joining the NFT space? Is it along the same?

[00:21:33] JB: Yeah, I wanted to change it. I think there's one that probably everyone says, which is, be patient. I can't stress that enough. I'm sure that a lot of people have said that before me, but I want to say it. I think the other thing that I did, and I think someone had done before, but it took me a while, a bit more maturity to do. Again, actually my dad told me, “You always got to put a business plan together for something.” Whether you call it a business plan, I think that sounds quite official for Web3, putting a business plan. So maybe it's just setting a roadmap or setting yourself goals, whatever you want to do. If you come in, and work out what you want to achieve from this space, I think a lot, myself included came into, don't do that. I didn't plan for what they wanted to do. I quickly realized that, actually, I did need to plan. I need to set myself goals, and how I wanted to achieve, and what I wanted to achieve from this space, and how I was going to go about it. I mean, even just thinking about what you're going to do, rather than just going, and just working out as you go, I think you try to plan ahead.

For me, certainly, has been really beneficial. I think that's probably a good bit of advice for anyone to try and work out what you want to do, and why you're here and, and maybe how you're going to do it. Obviously, these goals will change, and this roadmap will change as you sort of learn. You get more accustomed to things, you get new connections, you get more knowledge, whatever it might be. But you know, that's a business plan, isn't it? You adapt and progress.

[00:22:51] NORCAL: For sure. I know you've traveled a bit. Do you have a place if you could live or move anywhere where you would want to stay?

[00:22:58] JB: Yeah, Mexico.

[00:22:58] NORCAL: All right.

[00:23:01] JB: Yeah. There's something about the place. Well, Croatia is a close second because my wife's Croatian, and she's from Dubrovnik, in Southern Dalmatia. It is probably the most beautiful place I've ever seen in actual, looking at the town. But then when you realize you don't want to go to the beach every day, it's actually very slow in winter, it's a very European cultured city. It's lovely, but it's missing a bit of flair. 

Whereas Mexico, it’s just crazy, it's just wild, it's fun all the time. I love the culture, the flair for life. I have this plan that I'd love to one day execute, which is buy a piece of land in the Pacific Coast of Mexico, fairly isolated somewhere. So maybe just below on the mainland. I mean, I haven't got to the point where I can work it out. I'd love to be able to buy a plot of land, and build like a main house that is kind of a communal house. Then around it has sort of separate, like lots of different little houses that are available, that I could put friends, or family members that could come and live and stay. And we could have this kind of place where we all just hang out. There'd be a chef who would come and look after the main house, you got a great Mexican chef. It’d be like the main house, we’ll live there. It's just a place to come together, and live, and enjoy, and then everyone could go back to their separate abodes, and be with their families and whatever it might be.

That's kind of my dream and I mean, whether that's going to happen, but I think realistically, I could probably make it happen just for myself, and my wife. That is our plan also, once the kids are older and moved out, and have gone to university, or got jobs, or whatever they choose to do once they're out of the family home. And our plan is to go and set up a base in Mexico and travel from there. Yes, we traveled extensively to Latin America, because we just – we loved it and we spent a long time just going through pretty much every country, and just checking it out, and finding out where we thought, if someone was better, we didn't want to miss. 

Could Buenos Aires be a lot better? Could Santiago could – these places in Brazil, whatever. Even though Mexico was the first place we went to, we actually did live there for quite a while. It came full circle, and actually, this is still our favorite, isn't it? We didn't need to bother with all that travel, even though it was great fun. I don't regret it. I still love it. But yeah, Mexico definitely would be where I'd press my head.

[00:25:16] NORCAL: Nice. Well, maybe I'll see you there if I come visit that place.

[00:25:18] JB: Anytime, mate. Anytime.

[00:25:21] JB: Yeah, anytime.

[00:25:22] NORCAL: Do you have any questions for me?

[00:25:24] JB: Yeah, I've got a couple actually. One was, I guess, how's the photography going? Because I know when we spoke in New York. Have you got out and shot much? Are you enjoying it or is it something you see yourself doing more of?

[00:25:36] NORCAL: I mean, I haven't gotten out and shot much. I have taken a lot of pictures of my kids.

[00:25:42] JB: That's good. 

[00:25:43] NORCAL: I've been enjoying that, because they're just so much better than your phone. Like your phone is good, and I hear the new iPhone is even better. But man, just with the actual camera, I don't know, the kids respond differently. I don't know. They're not distracted by it as much as like the phone. It's like on the phone, they're like, “Oh, I want to see it. Let me smile.” I don't know.

[00:26:04] JB: Yeah, I get that. I get that.

[00:26:06] NORCAL: But yeah, I've really enjoyed it, especially that little CL that I got it. It's been nice to have like the dials to be able to like manually do it on the fly instead of hitting a button to get to it.

[00:26:21] JB: It's nice, isn't it, having that feel of like the raw camera, just like, this is how it shouldn't be done. I think you learn more when you do it that way as well, because you have to stop. Even though you can get very quick at it, when you're learning it, it’s actually paying attention to what you're doing, rather than just flicking a dial, and suddenly making it work, and you don't know why.

[00:26:37] NORCAL: Right. No, I really love it. I love being able to change things manually. Then, what's also very helpful is like the – I know all cameras do this, but the live preview. You're like, okay, so messing with this. You learn really quickly with that live preview.

[00:26:53] JB: Yeah, definitely. I think – is that camera – it’s like a mirror. You see when it changes, when you change the settings to the view.

[00:26:59] NORCAL: Yeah.

[00:27:00] JB: Yeah, you do. Is that we mean by the live view? Is that what you’re talking about? 

[00:27:02] NORCAL: Yeah.

[00:27:02] JB: Yeah. I’m so bad with terms, like – I used to use Leicas when it was filming, but I moved over to Nikon when I went digital. I didn't really jive with Leicas with digital. But I do like the one you have. I could see myself going back. It’s like a real, small camera, like carry every day and everywhere with me, and it's nice and light.

[00:27:02] NORCAL: Yeah. It's been fun.

[00:27:24] JB: Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad, it’s super good to hear. The other question I had was, do you consider yourself an artist at all or not?

[00:27:31] NORCAL: You know, I mean, it's a hard question. Because like, I'm in the space with a lot of good artists. You’re like, well, I don't consider myself an artist compared to the artists in the space. But I will say, I enjoy doing things, making things, building things, whatever. There is that. I enjoy the tangible art type stuff. I just refinished our kitchen table. That was pretty fun. I mean, it's enjoyable to see the outcome, or like putting things together.

[00:28:07] JB: The reason I asked that question is, because I forget the name of it off the top of my head. I think I wrote it down somewhere. I can't access it now, of the project you did where you took a picture, and then you mint it, and the next person then – did you give it a name? I'm sure you do. 

[00:28:20] NORCAL: Oh, yeah.

[00:28:20] JB: I think Lost Infinity bought that.

[00:28:23] NORCAL: Yeah, he did. He's getting ready to mail that back, finally, or – so that a second one is about to start. But it's like click mid pass, or one exposure. I have it. It's like both names.

[00:28:36] JB: That to me, when I saw that – I know you've done other projects, but that to me, I was like, “This is brilliant.” I'm not just saying it, like it was like this such a great idea, and such a – it made me think – I was like, “This guy's got a lot of artistic-ness in him, I think, actually. There's this creativity, and the bonding, and the way really bringing this sort of thing to life. I was like, I was kind of jealous, but in a good way. I was like, damn, man, that's a good idea. I really like that. I wish I'd come up with that, but I don't think I could pull it off, but I think you have pulled it off. It's amazing. That's why that question came around, because I was like, do you see yourself as this creative. I think what you did there was really, really impressive, and unique. Yeah, I'm very impressed.

[00:30:27] NORCAL: Yeah. You know, I was so nervous just because I have like – I was trying to get a picture before I really announced the project and got it started. It was so, he's just like, “Man, I don't know if I can get a good picture,” and you're just like trying to do stuff, and you got this little five-megapixel camera. You're trying to like mess with the on-camera effects and everything, and like, finally, I'm like, “All right. I think this one actually is kind of cool.”

[00:29:45] JB: Yeah. I think, reading Lost Infinity’s journey as well, the process he's going through is super cool. I mean, it's only the very beginning, and I'm already like fascinated by it. So I think there's so many places that can go. I think that to me, it reminded me of the sort of the ’60s, ’70s, or earlier, Warhol, these whole creative groups and some of the photographers, the London photographers, and all sort of this clicky coming together, creating. It was just like this whole lifestyle. I was like, “This is sort of the Web3 digital blockchain, whatever version of that like I felt bringing together on a much greater scale over the years.” Yeah, really, kudos to you. I'm really, really impressed by that.

[00:30:27] NORCAL: I’m really looking forward to it, and I'm hoping it goes on for a long time, and everyone that wants to participate can participate. I mean, it's priced. You mean, it's all auction-based, but it's all – it starts out at 0.069.

[00:30:41] JB: It quickly got up though, didn't it? By time I got around looking at bidding, I was like, “Wow, okay. I'm out of that.” But maybe one day. I need to get a few more sales under my belt, so I could compete, or the price, [inaudible 00:30:41] not be interested for one time, and I can never go.

[00:30:57] NORCAL: Right. Well, yeah, I think that's what's going to happen. You'll have definitely spikes in price, like if, like say, known photographers like yourself, or someone else gets it, and then someone's like, “Oh, I'd like to – all right. I like to get what they did,” or just a good photograph comes out of it, and someone's like, “I really want that photograph.” You'll have spikes in price, but you'll definitely have some that don't go up as high.

[00:31:22] JB: That's my entry point, then to get in.

[00:31:25] NORCAL: Yeah, I don't know. I guess because it was also such a popular – everyone liked the idea, so there was, you know, I guess. I mean, if I was on the other side, I might have bid it up too, because I was like, “That's a really cool idea. That's like the first step of the project. You own it and stuff.”

[00:31:45] JB: Yeah, it means a lot. It’s kind of the genesis, isn't it? Well, it is the Genesis.

[00:31:48] NORCAL: Yeah. It's the genesis of the project. It's like technically the first photograph that I've minted.

[00:31:55] JB: What a way to go. You came in with a bang, like really, just like boom, I've arrived. Putting us all the shame. We've been doing this for like 20 years, and it's like, “Damn, man.”. Sometimes I think as well, I love that about photography and creativeness in the way that it doesn't – the fact that you've been doing it for 20 years, 50 years doesn't make any difference to someone who never even done it as a profession, can just come with this incredible idea that there's no – you have to have this amount of time or experience and you can still – creativity is in all of us. That's just such proof that it can come out of anyone anytime, just without –just got to get those creative juices flowing and think about it.

[00:32:33] NORCAL: Definitely. I mean, I will say, taking arts classes for a couple years definitely helped. I think that definitely has helped my journey in this whole space.

[00:32:43] JB: I didn't realize you did that. You shouldn't have said that.

[00:32:47] NORCAL: I had to throw it out there. I had to. I can’t just let you –

[00:32:52] JB: I'll take some of your kudos back now.

[00:32:55] NORCAL: Perfect.

[00:32:55] JB: No, I’m only joking with you.

[00:32:57] NORCAL: Yeah. Any other questions?

[00:32:59] JB: No, no, that's it. I probably have got loads more, but I won't ask them now. I'll bug you with them in private someday.

[00:33:06] NORCAL: All right. Oh man. If you have any shoutouts, now's your time if you want to throw them out there. You don't have to.

[00:33:12] JB: I've got a few. I've written names and I don't know all their Twitter handles are. I don’t know if you’re expecting me to do that or not.

[00:33:17] NORCAL: Oh, no. Just names are fine.

[00:33:19] JB: Cool. Well, I'd like, biggest shout-out I guess has to go to a good friend of mine. I've only hung out with him a few times. We've got to know very well. We have the same agent Marco Botticelli, and he's responsible for really putting me on to this, and telling me, “Go with it, you can do this, you've got this.” He's still a massive support to me in terms of – he kind of left the space. He got a bit disillusioned by it. I try now to bring him back in, but I'm not doing as good a job as he did. But he really, he still helps if I have any questions with the technical side of things. Yeah, he's responsible for getting me involved in it, so a big shout-out to him.

Matt Cherry is a – he's actually just been named the TIMEPieces Person of the Year. But we connected when he first came into the space. I just saw something in this guy. I was like, “Oh boy, I'm fascinated by this guy.” I just reached out to him and say, “Hey, man. Let's have a call” and we’ve become really good friends, and he's just a great person. He lives up in Scotland, so we're on the same time zone. We can just bounce ideas around and we talk all the time. I'm super grateful for him. 

Drew, who was my first ever collector, who just made me realize this space could work, and I could really make it work, and his support, and belief in my journey really made me think, “Okay. Take this a little bit more seriously and really push yourself into it.” A big shout out to him. 

Then two other collectors of mine, [inaudible 00:34:31], we've become pretty good friends now. Obviously, you know him well as well. He’s in New York. That was the first time we ever met, but he really pushed me, and caught me in situations, and was like really sort of an advocate of mine, which I’ll be forever grateful for, some of the things he’s done for me. 

Alpha trilogy as well, who has just always been there to try and help. I love what he's doing with artists and just helping, especially with me, he's always – if I got any questions, I need to learn anything, he's always been happy to answer, and just been there to back me up. 

Then, obviously, yourself, everything you do for this space, for having me on this podcast, and giving me a talk about my life, my views, my photography. I mean, there's hundreds of others that I could say, to be honest, but we'd be here all day.

[00:35:16] NORCAL: Right. It's been a good space, meeting people, making new friends. A lot of support. It's a really good space.

[00:35:23] JB: Yeah, really. I mean, it's something I've been waiting for my whole life, and I just kind of thought it would never happen, and then it did. It took 20 years, but here we are, and I'm really, I'm loving it. I'm not sure I'd be able to go back to photography in the same fashion, if this space just suddenly ended for whatever reason. I might think, actually, maybe time to change career. I'll still take photographs, and I'll still might just end up having to do it for me, and might have to look at doing something else. I don't know. It'd be hard to go back because it is just so great.

[00:35:53] NORCAL: It is, yeah. Cool. Well, Jordan, thank you for your time. Thanks for this interview. Thank you for coming on.

[00:35:59] JB: No, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I hope it's been – haven't bored you and hopefully if anyone listens to it, find it interesting and helpful as well if you're just coming into this space, and looking to learn, and find out things. Yeah, massive thanks. Really appreciate it.

[00:36:13] NORCAL: Yeah, great times, and we'll talk soon. You have a great evening and enjoy your weekend.

[00:36:19] JB: And you.

[00:36:19] NORCAL: All right. Take care. Bye. 

[00:36:21] JB: All the best.

[END]