NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
Klutch - Collector - Throwback Episode
When Klutch, the entrepreneur who transformed his skepticism into a full-blown passion for NFTs, shares his story with us, it's an inspiration wrapped in blockchains and digital artistry. Our conversation traverses his journey from a Web 2.0 world to the vibrant heartbeat of Web 3.0, detailing the life lessons from his father that fueled his ambition and the strategy that turned him into a savvy NFT investor. Klutch doesn't just talk shop; he opens up about his dreams of a summer home filled with family memories, painting a picture of success that's as much about personal fulfillment as financial gain.
As we unpack the transformative power of crypto art, we find ourselves celebrating the global connections it fosters—where an artist from one corner of the world can share their vision with a collector on the other side, all thanks to the magic of peer-to-peer trading. This episode is more than a mere exploration of the digital marketplace; it's an ode to the artists we champion, a toast to the quotes that shape our lives, and an anticipation of the joyous gatherings that await us as we continue to spotlight the talents that brighten our project. Join us for this heartfelt voyage into the innovative world where Klutch and many others are shaping the future one NFT at a time.
Hey everyone, welcome to the next episode of NorCal and Chill the Vault. Today we have Clutch. Clutch is an experienced Web 2 founder with over 1 million satisfied customers and over 500 million worth of retail sales under his belt. Clutch currently considers himself to be a dollar-cost averaging investor in NFTs and has been collecting since the summer of 2021. Clutch is a co-host of NorCal and Clutch podcast and a member of Tungsten Dao. Everyone, please welcome Clutch. Hey, Clutch, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Klutch:Good thanks for having me. How are you?
NorCal Guy:Good, good, I'm so glad we could make this work. This is actually kind of fun, because we've never done an interview like this.
Klutch:Yeah for sure, am I the first collector that's going to be on NorCal and Chill yeah?
NorCal Guy:you're the first collector besides my interview. So yeah, you are the first one besides me.
Klutch:Oh, very nice. So you're going to interview yourself. That's cool.
NorCal Guy:We'll figure it out, we'll figure it out.
Klutch:Okay, that should be interesting. That would be fun.
NorCal Guy:I'm going to have to get a little bit of a break and then, devil's advocate with myself. What were your first thoughts when you heard about NFTs?
Klutch:Okay, this is easy. I thought it was so dumb. Oh, my God, we're buying JPEGs Copy paste, bro. And then you know what happened. I was like, wait a second, is this 2013? Bitcoin again? And am I just being dumb and missing the opportunity of a lifetime? And I was like, quite possibly. So yeah. I very quickly changed my mind and I was like I should be a little more open-minded and explore this For sure. So, yeah, those are my first thoughts, but when I first did look at it, I vowed I wasn't going to do anything for like six months. I was just going to watch and learn. Yeah, it turns out I should have just bought a bunch of shit, but I didn't. So right right.
NorCal Guy:Whoops. If you could live or move anywhere, where would you live and why?
Klutch:Oh, that's a tough one, you know. I really love where I live. I live near Phoenix, arizona, and it's a beautiful place. I grew up in Wisconsin, which was, you know, cold six months of crap weather, no, son, you could leave your house. It's dark. Come home it's dark Like.
Klutch:I did that my whole life and living here is like totally different Blue skies 95% of the days, it's just beautiful, the weather is great. The only other thing I would do is for us. Our summers are like everybody else's winter right. So I would want a place where I could get out of here in the summer. And one thing I'd growing up, I always would go camping with my dad and we had a place on a lake that my grandparents owned and I love that. And now that I have kids, I want to have that experience with my kids where I go fishing with them kind of out in the wilderness, can shoot some pellet guns or something. So, yeah, I would stay living where I am, but I would find that summer home to get away to and have a totally different experience with the kids for a few months.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, I like that a lot. That's a great idea. Like getting the kids out in nature just enjoying it. A lake is like perfect for that. Yeah, so nice. What's the best piece of advice you've been given?
Klutch:Oh, tough, okay. I always come back to one moment in my life that, like I feel like changed my path and it was when it was actually when I was in college and my dad had pancreatic cancer and he was, you know, he fought, but it's pretty much like a death sentence, right. So, like about two weeks before he passed, he and he knew I was having trouble in school, I was, I partied, I partied hard, like this is like the culture in Wisconsin, right, like drinking and driving is cool there.
NorCal Guy:You know like it's pretty bad.
Klutch:I think it might have changed a little bit since 20 years ago, but like that's how it was right. Like people would be, like I'm an excellent driver, who's?
NorCal Guy:the DDD. That's so crazy.
Klutch:Yeah, like, looking back, it was pretty crazy, right, and but that was the culture. So like, yeah, I got to college and I remember like in high school everything was easy and I just was, I was pretty smart and I didn't have to work that hard and I got great grades. And then then you get there and like all your competition is like now it's like way up another notch. It's not like the, the dumb ass who went to high school with anymore, who was like you know, doesn't want to work hard for anything in life, right? So the competition at a high end university is a totally different level and I partied like crazy and I was on the verge of getting kicked out left and right, left and right.
Klutch:And two weeks before my dad died, it was like the last thing, the last time he could even talk, and he said to me just, my wife must be on. He said to me just promise me you're going to, if you're going to, work through and finish school, right, and I was like, oh my God, this is my dad's dying wish for me. Like, okay, yes, time to buckle down. And you know, it was like. It was like a believe in yourself and work hard moment Like you got this. If you just you can do this. But you can't. You know, you got to take it seriously from now on. And I did. It was like a switch flipped in my brain and I was like, yes, I'm going to do that. So I got great grades. From then on, it was like I went from like a barely staying in like 3.8, like instantly, and it just showed me like man. I could have done this the whole time if I just had the motivation right, but I squandered those opportunities.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, I feel you on that one. Oh, did you collect art or anything else before crypto art, yes, Definitely collected art.
Klutch:My wife and I would travel a lot and then pre kids, it was like so easy to travel, right, right, and you go, and you would go to Italy and Spain and Greece and we would just go and then you'd find a gallery in the local town you're visiting. Maybe it's like Positano, positano, italy, or something, and we just be like, hey, yeah, we'll buy this, ship it back to the state's for me place. So I definitely did that. I got into collecting pretty hard during COVID because I was bored as I think, and I started collecting bourbon is one of my business partners did so.
Klutch:That was kind of a fun little hobby and my nephew plays baseball. He's in the minor leagues right now. So when he got drafted I started collecting his baseball cards again, and I haven't collected baseball cards since I was a kid, so it was interesting to get back in it and see how much more developed. And it was now and it's totally different Like you used to go to the card shops and you have the crickets and all this stuff. Now it's all on eBay, right? Oh, okay, the whole marketplace is on eBay these days.
NorCal Guy:Oh, I had no idea, I just remember going and buying the beckets and being like how much did it go up this month or down or a day? I should have sold it or something Right.
Klutch:You get that card that goes from like 25 cents to 30 cents. So as a kid you're like okay great.
NorCal Guy:What are the best things about web three today and what are your concerns as it expands?
Klutch:Okay, I thought about this one. The best thing to me is the freedom to transact. Now, the reason I'm saying that is because I don't know if you saw it, but Intrepid had a tweet thread about his life and how his life went through COVID and it was crazy. This guy was on a boat with his family and COVID hit and they're from Australia, right, so he could not like get back home because they wouldn't let him in, right, and, yeah, other countries wouldn't let him in either. So him and his wife are on a boat and like with their kids they have like three young kids like for years. It's like, oh my God, like wow, we really looking back, we really overreacted quite a bit. But uh, wow, yeah, and then he was, he got to read this.
Klutch:I'll go find it, I'll share it with you Like it is so crazy, Cause it's like then, like all of a sudden, his credit cards would expire and he couldn't like re-up them cause they'd want like some verification and he couldn't and he had to be like I don't know. He couldn't get like internet access or he had to go into like a bank to do it and he's like I can't even get on shore, how can I go?
Klutch:to a bank, right Damn. And so he was like, oh my gosh, like it's so crazy. How do you survive when you don't have access to your money? Right, that's insane.
Klutch:So, yeah, that was that one hit home. I think that was a really powerful tweet threat. My concerns are obviously regulation in the future and security. I mean, the systems are still very hard to use and not very intuitive and somebody getting hacked every other day still Most of the time in Ape, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. They deserve that, though, man, they do that to themselves.
NorCal Guy:It's true. It's true, it's them trying to make a trade or grab that next hot PFP and like oops, it's all gone.
Klutch:Yeah, no, they're always trying to make the trade to avoid the royalties.
NorCal Guy:Right.
Klutch:It's like whoops, there goes my Ape.
NorCal Guy:Right and I know yeah. Another topic when do you see digital art in five years and do you have any concerns?
Klutch:Okay, I see it being huge. Honestly, like I've thought about this a lot and I think it's going to become the number one collectible in the world. Now, there are a lot of collectibles in the world. There is something for everyone, right. There's watches, there's cars, there's baseball cards, there's bourbon, there's obviously traditional art I mean, it could go on and on and the thing is, a lot of those things are like. Trading them is not that easy, right, it requires a lot of middlemen and stuff. That's what I love about this technology, like it's kind of like makes peer to peer trading like really simple, right, and like worldwide. Like if you want to buy a car, you're probably buying a car in your like local region For sure. Yeah, you're not like going on eBay motors and buying a car in India or something if you live here in the.
Klutch:States. Right, it's impossible or the shipping would cost you more than the car. And but this is like how worldwide we can trade, like that is so cool. To me, that is very cool. So, yeah, I think it's gonna be huge. Obviously, I'm betting a lot of my time and resources on it and I'm excited to see where we're gonna go.
NorCal Guy:No, I agree with you on that. I mean just the interactions alone. Like I've never talked to so many people around the world since I got into crypto art. It's like I mean the time zones can be a little awkward, but definitely like you're talking to someone in Turkey or Russia or UK, australia, like Korea, japan. It's just crazy.
Klutch:Yeah, and it's great, like you realize, like we're all so much more like than we are different.
Klutch:Like. So like, while our leaders may have their, their you know wars and whatever, like you know, we can all just get along too, you know, it's so true. It's sad that it's it comes down to that a lot of times. But when, when you actually do meet these people and you realize like they're just like me, they have the same fears, the same concerns, they're just trying to provide for their family, like we are definitely all more like for sure.
NorCal Guy:I wholeheartedly believe in that one. What makes you decide to buy a piece? Do you like watch the artists for a while, get to know them, or is it? Like a. I'm buying it right now.
Klutch:Pure FOMO.
Klutch:Man Sometimes right sometimes yeah, okay, most of the time I'm seeing it shared on Twitter or something right by a Friends in the space, right, other artists, other collectors, and that's how you're getting introduced to new artists a lot of times. And Then you know it's usually you see one piece that's shared and then you, if it Catches your eye, you dive in and I'll go to their Twitter profile. I look to see if they have a link tree. Let's try to start trying to dive into their foundation or super rare or whatever they got on there.
Klutch:And and most of the time I don't buy from an artist right away, like Almost never right to be honest, like I'm like Okay, I want to, I'll follow them for sure, and then I'll start seeing how they're tweeting, what they're tweeting about what their interests are. So I try to like Get their vibe initially a little bit right, like, and then just see what their work is and let it soak in a little bit right. Some works definitely. It's like boom, I need that, like I, I love it. Other works you're like that's really good, but Do I want to invest in that when they're you know there's an infinite amount of JPEGs out there. So, like you got to get a pick and choose right where you're gonna allocate your resources. So most of the time I'm doing the second and I'm taking my time.
NorCal Guy:That makes sense makes sense. What is your favorite movie quote?
Klutch:Okay, I love this question because, like watching movies is one of my favorite hobbies. I have 180 inch 4k Dolby Atmos Theater. Yeah, that's like this is like my thing, like I'm old, so like I don't go out clubbing anymore.
NorCal Guy:Right like.
Klutch:I Go watch Disney movies with my kids and then when they go to bed I'll go watch older movies with my wife or something right. And so I do like this question and I thought about it quite a bit. I have a I couldn't even narrow it down to one.
NorCal Guy:I have like three yeah, let's do it all three.
Klutch:Okay, my first one was from the Princess Bride, and it was my name is El Nino Montoya. You killed my father prepared to die. Now, the reason I love this one is because in the movie he keeps saying it over and over and over right, and he's like just keeps going, pushing forward. It's like he's he's showing that he's like he's determined to be a good person. He's he's showing that he's like he's determined to accomplish his mission, no matter what he's gonna get it done. So I like that symbolism. The. The second one I came up with Was uh, it was from one of my favorite movies when I was gosh. I don't remember when I Maybe, maybe when I was a teenager break her yeah.
Klutch:So I loved this movie. I watched it like a hundred times at least. Right, so he's got the I Fight and you may die, run and you live at least a while and dying in your beds Many years from now. Would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that one for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives but they'll never take our freedom? Like that's, like you think about that moment in the movie. There's like so much power there, like you have a choice you can fight through this thing to succeed, or you can give up and go home and lose your freedoms and that that choice Hits you in life many times. There are many times you can fight through something or you can give up. It's happened to me a lot in recent years, in my business, for example, and I always choose to fight. So I like that quote because I like the symbolism and, yeah, I really just love it.
Klutch:Love that the last one would be the whole rap scene from that at the end of Eight Mile.
NorCal Guy:I won't do that one, but I love it Too bad.
Klutch:I could just like I'll go Sometimes I'll just go to YouTube just to watch it, because I'm like it's so good you know, oh, I just love it. It's like such a jam too, like you feel. Oh, it just pumps you up Like, yeah, get him rabbit.
NorCal Guy:Ah, too bad, I was hoping for a performance.
Klutch:Maybe next time Maybe in NFT N.
NorCal Guy:Let's see Karaoke night or something. There you go. What would you like to see more of in the crypto art space?
Klutch:Okay, last Degen behavior and more of a long term view. That is the single biggest one. Like, all the Degen's flipping are just, you know, obviously hoping for a quick buck, right. That's why we all got in practically Almost everybody I know got in for sure, and there were pockets of time where you could do that and be successful for sure. But most of the time it's not that easy. It's like really challenging, like oh, I'm going to flip this for 40 bucks, like okay, and then your time, investment and the emotional energy you got to put into it is like right.
Klutch:Like. You're like, oh, am I up, am I down? Oh my God, uh-oh Crap. I lost 40 bucks Like this sucks right, like, and you just you get too emotionally attached to these decisions so and I was definitely in that person at first. But over time, my collecting behavior changed and I realized, well, that's not really what I want to be here for. I actually don't need the 40 bucks Like. I'm here to, like, build something for the long term and I believe in this space and technology for the long term. So that's why I shipped it and became a dollar cost averaging investor is what I can say on myself into NFTs. So, yeah, less Degen behavior and more of a long term view, I think would be better for sure.
NorCal Guy:What are the best thing and the silliest thing you've spent money on?
Klutch:Okay, this one's so easy, and this is a pro tip for anybody out? There who can do this? Best thing I ever spent money on was my wife. Okay, Get this. When she was, when she was, when we met she worked multiple jobs. She was one of the hardest working people I've ever met. She worked like customer service during the day and then she worked at a bar at night.
NorCal Guy:That's how I met her.
Klutch:She was the bartender and she worked a lot and it was kind of getting to a point I was like, well, you know, if we're going to be together like long term, you don't actually have to do that anymore. Like I make enough money for both of us and I knew she was really into cooking.
Klutch:Right, I loved it Like food food channel, food network on all the time at my house. Well, pre-kids Now it's mostly Disney, but she still loves food network, right. So I was like you want to go to culinary school. And she's like, yeah. And I was like, boom, this is going to be the best investment of my lifetime because I'm like chef quality food at home forever. So, yeah, that's my best investment ever. Find your spouse to culinary school.
NorCal Guy:Pro tip.
Klutch:I love it. What was the silliest A$$ Okay, silliest man? That one's tough. The silliest thing I ever spend money on is stuff I don't use. Probably right Like I'll always go buy the new Xbox or PS5, and then I don't play it. I don't have time for that, but I gotta have it, I don't know. So I go buy it and it sits there.
NorCal Guy:So yeah, that's the silliest, that's fair, that's a good one, I agree. I agree. If you could commission a piece and have two artists collab on it, which two artists would it be?
Klutch:This is so hard, Like there are just an infinite number of combinations.
NorCal Guy:It's too hard.
Klutch:But you gotta think of artists that will fit together right Like. So like, for example, there's easy ones, right Like you could do Grant Union and X Company. It would be cool to see X try to glitch up a grand piece. Yeah, that'd be cool. Like it would be cool to see X try to glitch up Warhol, which would kind of a similar mix.
NorCal Guy:That'd be a cool combo.
Klutch:But there's one I really like that I've thought of, and it's because I've seen Ruben do a combo. So I think Kat Samard and Jenny Passinen would be really cool, because Kat has always been very open to.
NorCal Guy:A.
Klutch:She's definitely pushed B when I was super anti Like a year ago, and she helped me open up my own mind to be more accepting of it. And then I saw Jenny did a collab with Ruben, which was actually really good. So I feel like those two would make a killer collab and I am going to try to get them to do that for clickbait. I'm going to keep poking up and be like come on, please, I like it, I like it. I can't.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, that's going to be great. That would be great for whoever's month that ends up in.
Klutch:We'll see. Hopefully that happens.
NorCal Guy:What is one interesting fact about you that people might not be aware of?
Klutch:Okay, so one interesting fact is I originally wanted to do exactly what Grant is doing.
Klutch:I went to the same university. I had the intentions of going to the same exact medical school. I actually went to that medical school in high school for like after school extra things and they had like what they called mini medical school. I wanted to be a doctor my entire life, yeah, like so. Yeah, that's the one interesting thing. I really wanted to go down that path. Now I'm really glad I did not. It's funny how you think you want something super bad in life and then later on you realize, Right, it's probably good that it didn't happen.
NorCal Guy:What is your favorite way to connect with new people in this space? Meeting in real life.
Klutch:I mean, obviously we all Twitter, dm and all that. But man, when we go to like our Basel or NFT, nyc, and you get to meet these people, have conversations with them, like you feel like your friendship goes up another level. It totally does.
NorCal Guy:It totally does I mean? I remember like the first events that I went to and I was just like wow, like I actually feel like I made a better connection and just I don't know it's there's something about that.
Klutch:In person yeah, the real hug versus the virtual emoji hug like the real hugs better For sure. So, yeah, I would say meeting in real life is my favorite and just hanging out and talking about life. That's not always about NFTs, right, we're all here grinding on NFTs all the time, but when you get in that atmosphere you tend to have other conversations.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, I really enjoyed, when that stands out, was going to Miami and getting a spot and sharing it with you. It was so nice and chill and we could just like chill and chat about whatever.
Klutch:Yeah, when you came home that I didn't go to that one event, and then you came back to the Airbnb later and then we just had wine and pizza and whiskey and we just hung out on the couch and watch TV. That was awesome, that was a good time it was like we really became, like you know, really really great friends. Yeah, I feel like in that moment.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, I was. I'm looking forward to that again in New York. Like it was awesome.
Klutch:Yeah.
NorCal Guy:Any projects you're working on that you'd like to talk about.
Klutch:Yeah, I think you know of one. Have you ever heard of click create?
NorCal Guy:I heard about it before.
Klutch:Okay, let's do that one. Everybody go check us out, click createio. And here's what I would like you all to know about us. For example, we are investing heavily into our artists. We are making, like these great artists, spotlight videos, and I did a Twitter poll the other day and I found out like most people don't even know we're doing them yet. So we're gonna have to do a better job of showing people that we're doing them and hopefully, over time, they'll realize we're doing them. But, like we're doing really great things and I'm excited about what we're building, we're in a little bit of a bear right now. Everybody knows it, but like long-term, super bullish on what we're doing, because you know what we're doing, what's right we're doing. We're just putting out great art, we're promoting artists, we're trying to take care of our collectors, so I'm super excited about it.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, it's an amazing project which, funny enough, kind of spawned from Miami.
Klutch:It did, yeah sure good.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, I love it. I can't wait for this project to just grow. We're just starting month two and it's gonna be. I mean, it's just getting better and better. I love it.
Klutch:Yeah, and like the lineup is to come like transient just announced and everybody was seemed pretty excited about it. And Then we got cold these month and we know those artists already and those are bangers. So it's like Wow. And we got Dave Krugman, then we got Grant. You like it's just gonna just boom, boom, boom. You know it's funny. I think like we're gonna get to the end of the year and it'll be over, and but like wow, that happened pretty fast, yeah. But when you're in the middle of it it's like feels like we're definitely grinding like this way more work than I thought I know I'm always like dig what, what do I need?
NorCal Guy:Oh yeah, and you do this, and you do this Like there's always something, but it's good.
Klutch:Yeah, it's good.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, dude, Thanks again. I Enjoyed this. It was really fun and I can't wait. I had fun too. Man Can't wait to see you.
Klutch:I know, I know, only couple weeks away, more, more pizza, more wine, more whiskey. I'm ready See you there. I love it. Okay, so good, but Time Feel.