Hayden Clay - Artist

Sometimes, the spark of creativity is a legacy passed down through generations. That's the story of digital artist Hayden Clay, who joins me to share his artistic odyssey, marked by his father's influence and a spirited cuttlefish. Our conversation is a vivid tapestry of Hayden's past odd jobs and his current triumphs within the transformative realm of NFTs and digital art monetization. We traverse from laughable moments to profound insights, with Hayden's anticipation for camera shopping in Japan acting as a delightful backdrop to our exploration of how cultural richness feeds the artistic soul.

As someone who understands the unpredictable waves of the artist's life, Hayden drops anchors of wisdom for navigating the choppy waters of the crypto art space, underscoring the lifeline of income diversification. He reflects on the magnetic pull of global cities like Hong Kong and the comfort found in a bowl of curry, ingredients that contribute to his ever-evolving palette of inspiration. As Hayden unfolds his photography journey, he presents it as more than a pursuit of beauty—it's a relentless quest to seize fleeting moments, and potentially, through travel photography, to capture the essence of life itself.

As we approach the horizon of our heartwarming exchange, I express my deep appreciation for Hayden's candor and the laughter we share, including the tale of a forgotten item that perfectly illustrates the imperfect joy of creative endeavors. We speculate on the future of digital collectibles and the trend of trading profile pictures for art, all while excitingly teasing upcoming events that promise to keep the creative fires burning. So, join us for this episode that is as much about embracing art as it is about embracing the quirks and escapades that come with a creative life.

https://twitter.com/haydclay

https://linktr.ee/hayden_clay

Chapters

• 0:06 Embracing Art and NFTs With Hayden
• 18:00 Artists' Advice on Diversification and Inspiration
• 22:15 Photography, Travel, and Art Projects
• 29:18 Appreciation and Connection in Creative Industry

Transcript

Hayden Clay: 0:06

Who is this guy? Nor Calguy, Nor Cal Try. Nor Cal Die. Nor Cal Die. Nor Cal Die. Nor bac기. Nor Cal Guy. Nor Cal Chill, Nor Cal Chill.

NorCal Guy: 0:31

Nor shall. How do you handle this, Nor, cal? Today we have an engaging episode with the incredibly talented Hayden Clay. The conversation gets personal as Hayden reflects on his journey from creative kid influenced by his dad to overcoming his reluctance to become a dedicated artist. He shared anecdotes from various jobs he held before going all in on his passion for art and recalled an amusing experience with a cuttlefish in an aquarium. We both geeked out over hardware wallets, NFTs and our love for photography. In fact, Hayden is looking forward to scoping out camera shops with his upcoming trip to Japan. He also shared his appreciation for the cultural diversity found in Curry and shared the best advice he's received to embrace life's messiness. Thanks to Hayden for joining us and parting his experiences and discussing the evolving recognition of digital art. Stick with us for more, everybody. Please welcome Hayden Clay. Hey, Hayden, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?

Hayden Clay: 1:43

I'm doing great. Hello, norcal, how are you Good?

NorCal Guy: 1:48

good, it's a good day. Tired, but you know good day. Weekend is coming up and I'm really looking forward to this weekend, so can't complain.

Hayden Clay: 1:59

I love it. Yeah, it's an exciting time to be alive and in the space, everything is up. Spring is on the horizon. Nft Paris, nft New York. I feel like there's just lots of exciting things to come.

NorCal Guy: 2:14

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I know Paris does look nice. One day, maybe I'll make it to that event. The past two years have not been that day.

Hayden Clay: 2:28

Yeah, I'd also love to go Feeling a little bit of FOMO. I would love to see you wage war on croissants with your biscuits and eat gator. Show them up, but there's always time for that.

NorCal Guy: 2:42

True, true, true, oh man. So do you have a hardware wallet and use it.

Hayden Clay: 2:49

I do. I do the safe three address protocol. I have my main ledger that I meant from. I have another ledger that is a cool see-through ledger that I use as my vault and I got the spicy hot wallet MetaMask. But yeah, I love the ledger. I feel like I went a while like when I first started in the space just having a MetaMask and I look back on that time with a cringe and I feel like it was the Wild West. So, yeah, I do have a ledger.

NorCal Guy: 3:29

That's good. That's a good setup. I forget what it's called Like 6529, put a name to that protocol, like he called it. He calls it TAP TAP. There it is Okay, perfect, so what were your first thoughts when you heard about crypto art and NFTs?

Hayden Clay: 3:51

Yeah, I was excited. So my first exposure to it was people and rising and race. And both of these people are 3D artists and for me that was doubly exciting because I'm a 3D artist. So let me give you the backdrop of what was going on in my mind at the time.

Hayden Clay: 4:15

I'm making art and sort of like trying to find a way to make a living and for me, like most of the way I would make money off of my own art was by selling prints, and I also wanted to make animations. But, like, whenever I would make an animation, I would have to render it for like 48 hours and I couldn't sell prints of it. So I kind of felt like, is this financially wise for me to do? Like I'm spending all this time and I can't really monetize it. So, right around these thoughts are going on. I see NFTs starting to make a buzz and I'm like, holy shit, this seems like a perfect fit for my art and for animations. And, yeah, I was very excited about it. To me it kind of seemed like there was a cultural shift happening and Digital art was finally getting the value that it deserved.

NorCal Guy: 5:10

For sure. Yeah, I mean and I was talking to another artist kind of about this, but you know, like photography is still kind of shunned a little bit, but like video art is like the redheaded stepchild and they get like no respect. And he was like yeah, I mean, like yeah, you can make limited edition DVD or like what's going on pre-NFTs. And then you know you have digital scarcity now, and now you can do that with these formats that you weren't able to do before and create things that wasn't possible. It's pretty awesome.

Hayden Clay: 5:50

I agree. Yeah, there's both a change in like the technology and the ways you're able to sell it, but also in like the. I think equally important is the social value that we place on these things. I think that's essentially where value comes from. Anyway, it's like what is your, what is the social opinion of it? So, yeah, like photography, video and other digital artworks, finally, are perceived as it's actually having value, right.

NorCal Guy: 6:18

It's huge. So why did you choose art, or what brought you to art?

Hayden Clay: 6:27

I feel like there has been an inescapable pool. Like I think that I don't want to say that I was destined to be an artist, but it kind of seems that way. I, as a kid, like I was very creative and imaginative and visual, and my dad is actually an artist he's a watercolor painter and when I was like first grade, you know, the first time they asked you what do you want to be when you grow up? I would say artist. But at that point my parents are like you can't be an artist. Like we know, we know what it's like to be an artist, your dad is one and you can't do that. Like you have to be an engineer or a doctor or a lawyer. Like you know the fancy jobs that make parents happy.

Hayden Clay: 7:12

So yeah, so yeah, I I like really enjoyed art as a hobby for my entire youth. Like I was really into making things out of clay, sculpting little creatures and stuff. I was really into drawing and painting, but I never really had like a serious plan to be an artist professionally. It definitely was like fantasy. I mean, who doesn't want to be an artist? But I was on the path to be like an engineer or scientist and, yeah, it wasn't until I was 18 when I got into photography and I was like dang, I think think I might actually be able to make this work. I got really into it. It definitely shifted from being a hobby to something that I was putting a lot of time and passion into. Like I would say, my pursuits were fun and silly beforehand, but with photography it got serious and at that point, like I was still on my path to be an engineer but I was spending like all of my free time on art, kind of just like hoping that somehow someday something would happen. And here we are.

NorCal Guy: 8:27

Right, perfect. I love that. Well, what jobs have you done along the way? Those gritty jobs or first-time jobs?

Hayden Clay: 8:46

Yeah, I've had a lot of jobs on this path and none of them artistic. So right, I worked at a the climbing wall at my university for a long time. I was really in the climbing and that's like a very good job to have in college, because I would like be going to the Wall anyway. So why not get paid, right? Right, I was like an account payable temp data entry, basically I. Right after graduating college I was a CVS pharmacy tech and I was finally got spit on my face in the very first day like a sick lady game in and just spat on my face. So I would.

Hayden Clay: 9:28

That's, that was probably the grittiest job. And I was a TA a lot in college. I TA'd for Organic chemistry, gen Chem and plant science. I was I was a biochemistry student, so I was like TAing and all of the Thank you right. That was actually fun. So my first like serious, real job outside of college was as a software developer. I Was an intern at a couple different places and then I moved to New York to be a full-time software developer and that was my last job, because a Couple years ago I finally made the decision to quit that and do art full-time. So that's a. It's the overview of my journey, nice.

NorCal Guy: 10:20

Wow, impressive. I like that. It's good. That's a good list. It's a good list. I'm kind of impressed by the whole O cam and G cam and All those cams, because I was terrible at those.

Hayden Clay: 10:37

It's easier to be a TA than it is a student. There's no one testing you but, yeah, like it's, it's a struggle. But I think a part of why it was fun for me to be a TA is because I feel like they are really hard concepts and classes and like I viewed it as kind of like cool, like I will be the TA that I wish I had. Like I feel like my TA wasn't very helpful and like now I'm excited to kind of be like nice and friendly and Hopefully a good teacher to people like me a couple years ago.

NorCal Guy: 11:12

For sure. Well, that's awesome. So if you were an animal, what would you be?

Hayden Clay: 11:18

and why this is always such a tough question for me to answer, because I feel like, oh, I have an answer, but I don't have a Good reason for it. All right, I want to be a cuttlefish, and I'm not saying I'm like Like a cuttlefish, I just had a experience with one. So at the Coney Island Aquarium in Brooklyn, okay, there's just this cuttlefish in a tank and couple years ago I Went in there and this little guy just swims like right up to the edge and then looks at me and I looked at him and we just held eye contact for like 10 minutes is very profound. I was like, wow, this is such an amazing creature. And I was equal, equally amazed and also like Laughing, because if you, if you look at a cuttlefish, they're very silly looking. They kind of look like Like imagine an avocado wearing like a, like a to do and that to do is kind of like Rippling and that's how it proposes through water and it's got like a Cthulhu face. So I was just like in all of this creature, in the way that it felt like it was kind of connecting with me.

Hayden Clay: 12:30

And Years later I think probably a year later I went there on a date and I Feel like the cuttlefish was jealous. Like I brought this lady to see the cuttlefish and it was like hiding, it wasn't coming out and I'm definitely like crafting a narrative in in my head like it was Probably just like the sleeping or something. But in my mind I'm like this this is the case, it was jealous. This cuttlefish had a profound connection with me and isn't that jealous? So they're really cool creatures. And right next to that cuttlefish is a tank of smaller, more colorful cuttlefish. They're called flamboyant cuttlefish and they look like if you just imagine, like a purple orchid. They look exactly like that. It's crazy and they're very comical. Like they walk along the seafloor with their little face Tentacles it's like a cartoon character and they also can change their colors, kind of like millions. They're fascinating. So I feel like they're underappreciated creatures and Because of this, like experience with the cuttlefish, I would love to join their aquatic society.

NorCal Guy: 13:44

No, that's a good. That's a good, a good one, I mean, as, as a person who picks the octopus, I have a great appreciation for the cuttlefish and no-transcript. They're a cool creature. I mean, they're very similar to an octopus, they just swim.

Hayden Clay: 14:02

They're extremely, extremely similar. I feel like it's like an octopus, just kind of packaged into a different shape. I love them. What makes you choose an octopus?

NorCal Guy: 14:13

Oh, uh, I mean partly because I mean they're intelligent, they can hide and like, be like disguised and just like I'm just gonna do my own thing, don't want to be seen right now, and then they'll. But there also can be like social, at least with humans. It does seem like like they'll come and play and do whatever. I always wanted one as a pet, um, because I had. I had a saltwater tank for like a couple years, but I never got around to setting one up specifically for an octopus because that's a lot of work. But uh, yeah, they're fascinating.

Hayden Clay: 14:52

They're so cool and the way that they can squeeze through like the smallest of gaps, uh, they feel like they just have a laundry list of exciting facts about them.

NorCal Guy: 15:02

Yeah, true, that's true, they're amazing. So do you have a favorite food?

Hayden Clay: 15:11

Yeah, I think it's curry. That's uh an umbrella Like. I love all kinds of curries. I specifically like uh katsu curry, like it's a Japanese dish which has Japanese curry and chicken katsu on the side. I love that, so good, um. But I'm also a big fan of Indian curry. So that's definitely a safe answer for me, because I feel like in the pool of curry there's like many different cuisines to swim to.

NorCal Guy: 15:40

I love True, true, there are a lot. I mean, think about it. I mean, like there's Thai curries, get the yellow or green or red. I mean, yeah, you go curry and then you just like you're set for life.

Hayden Clay: 15:54

Yeah, and I'm a big time getter of curry. I get it a lot when I go to places and I feel like there's always like a new curry that I've never seen before. Right, um, it's, it's wild. All rainbow of colors green, red, yellow, brown. It's amazing.

NorCal Guy: 16:11

It's true. So what's the best piece of advice you've been given? Or like a mantra that you can like? Come back to that's in your head.

Hayden Clay: 16:22

Yeah.

Hayden Clay: 16:23

So I definitely received a lot of advice and I think the way to know if something really impacts you is, like how often you think about it.

Hayden Clay: 16:34

And I think for me I was told life is supposed to be messy Like it's supposed to be messy and it's pretty generic. But for me that comforted me a lot because, like you can fuck up in a lot of different ways in life and small ways that you can say something you didn't mean to say. Like in big ways you can, like you know, take a job you shouldn't have or done something you shouldn't have, and I think like it's helpful to understand that like making a mistake and fucking up isn't something that like is is a bad event, it's. It's like the default, like you should expect it and it's okay, it's supposed to happen. And like these mistakes are kind of funny, like they're kind of what makes life interesting. I kind of like the spice of life and if you didn't have them to be kind of boring, as someone who's kind of like a perfectionist and tries to like optimize a lot of areas of my life, I find it very helpful to kind of just be like chill out, it's cool, don't worry about it.

NorCal Guy: 17:50

That's fair. I like that actually. I mean because then you're not stressing about why it's not perfect. Do you have advice for artists coming to this crypto art space?

Hayden Clay: 18:05

Yes, I think the big, the big advice is definitely don't quit your day job.

Hayden Clay: 18:12

I think this is a space that is super volatile and like a small percentage of artists will make any amount of significant income, especially enough to live off of.

Hayden Clay: 18:26

But I think the most important piece of advice for artists in general is just to diversify into every possible way you can Like. For me, and I assume many other artists that are making a living, is like I have many different income streams and that way I'm not stressed if I have a couple months without sales because I have the option of freelance, I have print sales, I have licensing, I have these residuals paying for many different income streams, and I think if you are pressured to make money off of NFTs because that's your only income stream, that's going to be very stressful and you're probably going to come across as very annoying because you're going to have to essentially beg like it's your livelihood and you're going to be having to mint more often than you may want to. You may be minting like work that isn't your best. I think it leads you to doing things that you probably shouldn't do. I think it's good to be selective and I think it's way healthier to not rely on, like this absolute wild west of a new digital economy. You know, right, right.

NorCal Guy: 19:44

For sure. So if you could live or move anywhere, where would you live and why?

Hayden Clay: 19:54

That's a tough one. I'm someone who I kind of have a fantasy of living for a brief period of time and like every place, like I want to move everywhere.

Hayden Clay: 20:05

But I definitely have a few places that come to mind. I'm someone that loves like water and warm weather, so somewhere tropical, very cool. I lived in Hong Kong for six months and I love it there. Like I do think about moving back pretty often. It's probably my favorite place in the world, but I there's just so much of the world I haven't seen. Like I've literally only been to San Diego. That's the only part of California I've ever been to and I don't know if you can say this part.

Hayden Clay: 20:41

Anywhere in California people are like oh, you should go check out this spot and it's like a seven-hour drive away, like I'm here for two days. I don't think I can do that. So, as someone who's only scratched the surface of California, like I unlocked kind of like 20 more trips, 20 more towns and cities I'd like to see. So I'd love to live in California at some point. Everyone describes it as like it's paradise. I mean, I'm sure you have some strong opinions, mr Norgao, but yeah, I think like, in summary, I just want to live like in a whole bunch of different places, but Hong Kong has a special place in my heart.

Hayden Clay: 21:21

Yeah Well, I mean, the good thing is is you can live in a lot of places and still get curry, that's very true, and yeah Well, although Hong Kong especially is kind of like a global melting pot, so it's a good spot to have all the curry come to you.

NorCal Guy: 21:40

So do you have any questions for me?

Hayden Clay: 21:43

Yeah. So I've been seeing like a little some snippets of you getting into photography. I've seen like a couple posts of you kind of hanging out with Ruben Woo and taking pictures, and I would just love to kind of like get more info on this, like how is your photographic journey coming along? I mean, what inspires you? Do you see yourself as like a travel photographer mainly, or like, just how's it going?

NorCal Guy: 22:12

Yeah, no, it's good. It's good, I guess. I take a lot of pictures of my family when I'm at home, so I don't share those, and when I'm at home.

NorCal Guy: 22:29

I am at home, I'm not going out doing things, so it's mainly like photos of people, my kids. But when I do get to travel and do something, then I enjoy going out and just taking pictures, like just walking around by myself and just, oh, that looks interesting, take a picture type thing. I generally it's more if it's interesting to me than I'll take a snap, a shot and that could be, and I don't know if I have a favorite subject matter that I have, I'm just interested in whatever looks interesting to me. I guess, which is kind of weird to say, because I feel like some people are like, oh, I do street photography, I do landscape photography, and I'm like, oh, I'll just try whatever and just take pictures of what looks cool to me.

Hayden Clay: 23:28

Yeah, I think both Ruben and I would agree with that whole boxing yourself into a specific genre of photography. It's not always easy and I didn't really have a good way to describe my style either, but it's just such a fun medium to get into. I'm curious do you feel like it changed the way that you view the world getting into photography?

NorCal Guy: 23:53

I mean, sometimes I'll be driving along and I'll be like, hmm, I should stop and take that picture. But you see something and you're like, oh, that would be a pretty cool picture. But do I really want to turn around right now, or am I late right now? So yeah, I definitely notice things and like, okay, that would be kind of cool. Or like, dang it, I don't have my camera on me right now. How do I not have a camera? I'm always carrying the camera on me, but I guess technically I am. I have my iPhone, but I'm like, ah, screw that thing.

Hayden Clay: 24:32

Totally get you. I've had so many nightmares where I'm like in an exciting place and I don't have my camera and it's just funny how like I've unlocked a new fear or like a new nightmare by getting into this medium. Like right now I'm planning a trip to Japan and I've already had two nightmares where I get there and like my camera's broken or like I'm out of film or something like that. So yeah, yeah.

NorCal Guy: 25:04

It's reasonable. Reasonable Because if you don't have your camera or for breaks, you know, unless you have a backup of some sort, then you're you have to either, like buy a new one on the spot, like that's your only option.

Hayden Clay: 25:21

Yeah, and I was thinking about that and I was like you know what, it might even be kind of fun to like have to wander into some cool like local Japanese Photoshop. I mean, like most of the cameras are Japanese anyway, like Nikon and Canon and stuff, so it couldn't be in the world. But yeah, I definitely did. It's not.

NorCal Guy: 25:41

Sweet. Do you have any other questions?

Hayden Clay: 25:47

Yeah, I definitely was. It's funny, I was planning on asking you about the future of the create and then, just like an hour ago, like this, this bombshell dropped. So it's like that was my answer there, but that's very exciting. I'm excited to see, like, how that unfolds and I'm excited to go shopping myself.

NorCal Guy: 26:07

Sweet. Yeah, no, and we also had season two launching soon For the beginning of, so I guess next week we'll probably be pounding the streets with that that news as well for season two starting in March. But yeah, no, it's going great man. Yeah, this burn PFPs and Get Art was a fun thing to kind of put together. No one has done it and we had to get a custom contract made so we could actually do it. So, yeah, it's been. It's been fun, been interesting, and I think it's going to be successful. I guess you know it doesn't cost you anything. You just have to get rid of some PFPs that you hate.

Hayden Clay: 26:56

Yeah, I definitely think it's going to be successful as well. I also wouldn't be surprised if, like, this paradigm of burning PFPs for for something else kind of catches on, because I almost constantly see like sort of like down bad posts of people being like bought this for a fuck done. Now it's worth nothing, like I can't believe I spent this on this bored lion dog. Like I feel like there's a lot of unhappy with their PFPs and it seems like a good way to kind of like revive them into something else.

NorCal Guy: 27:31

That's true. That's true. Yeah, this is a good way to like. Get rid of those Is. Yeah, that's, it's gonna be fun. Well, do you have any projects that you'd like to talk about? Upcoming past, future anything?

Hayden Clay: 27:50

yes, yes. So lots of extending stuff going on right now. The current project I'm working on the suburbs just finished the end of our work for that. Oh, only six of those have been minted, so you can be on the lookout for news For the other four. I feel like the series kind of keeps getting better and better. That's just up to me. Uh-huh, outside the space, I have a art show in Seoul in Korea, on March 29th that's opening and it's gonna be open for six months, so I will be there for the opening day. I'm really excited about that. I think, if there's any, any chance your near South Korea, it's, it's worth checking out, and our works from the suburbs will be on display there. So very cool. But I'll be working on that. And and yeah, I think that's the two big headlines in my life right now.

NorCal Guy: 28:59

Nice. Well, that's awesome. I mean, I've enjoyed the past suburbs that you've made. I don't own all of them, unfortunately, because some diamond handers being jerks like I would be, but Um. But yeah, I want to say thank you, hayden, for coming on the show and spending some time with me and Letting us all get to know a little bit about you.

Hayden Clay: 29:27

Yes, likewise, it's always a pleasure chatting with you. It's great, the chat, art, crypto, the space and everything in between. Cannot wait to finally try your biscuits and hopefully see you in New York and and for sure, yeah, it's been a pleasure dead.

NorCal Guy: 29:48

Yes, it's been great. Hahaha, sweet man. Well, I'll see you soon and you have a good day. Thank you you too.

Hayden Clay: 29:57

Oh no, forget Gau. What the shit. I don't see it.