NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
From Traditional Art to NFTs: Michelle's Journey Through the Art World and Web3
Meet Michelle Thompson, a talented illustrator turned NFT artist, who joins us to share her inspiring journey from traditional art to the dynamic world of NFTs and Web3. With a rich artistic background influenced by her grandfather, Michelle talks about her seamless transition to a freelance career and the initial apprehensions she faced entering the crypto art scene. She highlights how the social aspects of Web3 have transformed her experience, allowing her to connect directly with collectors and break free from the isolation often felt in traditional illustration. Listen in as she offers valuable advice to new artists on maintaining consistency and diversifying income streams beyond NFTs.
This episode unpacks the challenges and insights of navigating the art world, with a focus on curation and distribution of digital art. Michelle shares her thoughts on the difficulty of reaching anonymous collectors and the benefits of using PO boxes to facilitate these exchanges. Our discussion touches on the shift from scarcity to broader accessibility in the art market, emphasizing the importance of adaptability in pricing strategies. With high-profile sales and fluctuating market demands, artists must find a balance between limited editions and mass distribution to stay relevant in this rapidly evolving space.
Our conversation with Michelle takes a delightful turn as we explore future trends and her personal musings about life in Lisbon. From the potential of augmented reality in art to the supportive nature of the art community, Michelle paints a picture of an exciting future for artists willing to embrace change and innovation. As we wrap up, the episode leaves listeners with a sense of camaraderie and the joys of genuine connections, sprinkled with light-hearted moments about future encounters, the joys of podcasting, and a shared appreciation for a good gin and tonic.
https://x.com/mich_tom
https://www.michelle-thompson.com/
Who is this? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal and chill podcast. So it's chill time, norcal and chill podcast. What the sh-, what the sh-? Norcal and chill podcast. What the sh-, what the sh NorCal and Shill Podcast. So it's shill time, norcal and.
Intro:Shill Podcast what the sh what the sh-. In this episode of NorCal and Shill, host NorCal Guy welcomes illustrator and NFT artist Michelle.
Intro:She candidly shares her initial apprehensions about joining the podcast and opens up about her journey into NFTs and crypto art, which began after reading an article by her agent. Despite her apprehension, she pursued it, aided by peers like Gary Cartridge. Michelle discusses her traditional art background, influenced by her artist grandfather, and her seamless transition into a freelance career straight out of university. The conversation touches on the isolation of being an illustrator and how Web3 introduced a refreshing social dynamic enabling direct interactions with collectors. Michelle highlights the importance of curation in the NFT space and offers advice to new artists about consistency and not relying solely on NFTs for income. She shares her love for seafood, her affinity for Lisbon and wraps up by promoting her recent drops on various platforms, expressing the joy of connecting with collectors.
NorCal Guy:Hey, Michelle, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Michelle Thompson:I'm scared, but thanks for having me yeah, well, it's a.
NorCal Guy:It's a, it's a authentic answer right there. It's the first time on the show. I like it.
Michelle Thompson:No, it's great, I love it, but yeah, day going well, great day so far I think I've just been waiting for this all day, thinking that don't forget to say something.
NorCal Guy:But yeah, we'll see true, I mean because on your side of the ocean it's it's the evening, so you had the whole day to think about what's coming and you've been nervous about it. And then you're like, oh man.
Michelle Thompson:It will be a relief. In about an hour I'll have a gin and tonic.
NorCal Guy:Perfect. So what were your first thoughts when you heard about NFTs and crypto art?
Michelle Thompson:Right, well, it was just after Beeple had sold, which I'm sure everyone says. But I'm an illustrator and my agent had written an article in a magazine about how, as an agency, we weren't going to do NFTs, and so he'd written all about it. And he'd written about Brendan Dawes and his work on Maker's Place and he'd written a piece about what happened. And I was just like, well, this sounds amazing, like I can't understand why we're not going to do this. And I'd been working as an illustrator, I had so much digital work, I had 24 years and I was like, uh, I could do this. So I did a bit of research. Um, I could see that Gary Cartlidge was doing it, so I messaged him and he gave me some help with wallets and then it just took I don't know a couple of weeks to try and work out how to do it, which, um was interesting. And so I started on ethereum and then I went to tezos after I started trying trying to shill, which was all new.
NorCal Guy:Right, right For sure. So why did you choose art? What brought you to illustration?
Michelle Thompson:So I was the child that would get excited about the pencil, the rubbers. So that's just what I wanted to do the rubbers. So I, that's just what I wanted to do. And my granddad was an artist but he'd done a degree like open university I don't know if you have that here so he kind of done a degree I suppose it was in after the war. So he would send his work away and it would get marked and it would get sent back. So we sort of had art in the family, okay. And um, I wanted to do record sleeves. So straight from school I went and did a graphic design and then I did a degree in illustration and then I did a master's in illustration wow. So it was all quite traditional, just did the route yeah, no, that's solid.
NorCal Guy:Um, that's pretty fun that you wanted to do like uh the record labels, the uh album covers, kind of thing. So what jobs have you done along along the way? Have you done any of those grunge jobs like when you were younger, like the ones that you hated, or?
Michelle Thompson:No, I've just done this I have. So I had my degree show, my master's, and somebody called Vaughn Oliver that was designing for 4AD. He came to the show and said you should come and show your work, and so I took, so I finished my master's and then I sort of went to see people and I got work almost immediately. So I have never, ever, had a nine to five. So I've always been freelance from the minute I left. I know that's awesome. So when people talk about payday and salaries and I'm like what does that mean?
Michelle Thompson:You know, like so this is all I've done. So, but I have like it hasn't always just been illustration, There'll be, so I sell prints. I've had stuff in the Royal Academy summer show, so it's like different revenue. So nfts just became another way of earning money yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
NorCal Guy:So what are the best things about web3 today?
Michelle Thompson:I think, having only done illustration, I have sat in a room or a studio for more years than I want to say, but I haven't. You're always on your own, and it wasn't until COVID where we started, so my briefs would come in through email. Before that, it would be a phone call before we even did emails and so I've always literally been on my own.
Michelle Thompson:And then suddenly there was this, uh, nfts, web3, and I was, um, in spaces, listening to people. I was having, you know, chats with people that live in different countries, and it just opened up a different way of working, you know, and I could. I mean, I mean, I love my agent, my agent gets me work, but this time I could do the work I wanted to do and I could choose the platforms. There was nobody in control and, um, I don't know. It was just.
NorCal Guy:It's refreshing, after all, this time for sure she has a look yeah, no, it definitely was something different for artists to have that direct link to collectors, people that were interested in your work and collecting what you made for what you wanted and what you wanted to do not commercial-esque type of work yeah, and I mean, I do sell my work through galleries, um, but they're very sort of, they won't say who's brought your work.
Michelle Thompson:Oh yeah, and they're going to take 50 percent, right. So, again, it was quite nice to suddenly get relationships with with your collectors and then finding out that they're going to be you know, they come back again, you know, because you've become friends and so they're always there to support you. So, yeah, it's very different world.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, for sure. So where did you see digital art and NFTs in five years?
Michelle Thompson:I'm hoping that it becomes more. We we sort of mix the two, so we have the traditional. We bring in the art world, because at the moment I'm I'm in two worlds and the people that I see at the shows just think I'm crazy. They don't want to do NFTs and then, you know, I think they're too scared to come and try. Or they do come and try and it's not what they expected, and so they're like we don't do that anymore. So I'm hoping that we're able to bring more people in, who will also bring more collectors as well and maybe more of the physical.
Michelle Thompson:So when I first started and I wanted to put my archive of my original collages on, I found it very hard. People didn't want me to send them the work. So it's like you know this, this artwork comes with this, because they didn't want to know where, they didn't want me to know where they lived or their names, right, right, and I just found that crazy and I still have work here that people we both know that own the work, but they don't want it.
NorCal Guy:They don't want me to send it come on, people set up a peel box. It's not that hard.
Michelle Thompson:Yeah, yeah, could do that, couldn't they? So I would like that more. Yeah, so you know, bring in the art in real life, art world.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, no, I love getting the physical pieces and I did set up a separate mailbox specifically so I could do that.
Michelle Thompson:Oh, okay, I need to suggest that then because you can. It's even it yeah it's like finding out people's names as well, you know like, because suddenly it's not who who you think it is, you know and I and I still like and they're like you can. You can now call me, say it's martin and I was like I can't, because in my head you're still the old twitter profile, right?
NorCal Guy:for sure, but yeah, no, I around here there's like this small business that has, like that is has their own peel boxes. It's not um a postal, it's not like a post station, um, but yeah, I could put like any name on it and they'll just like yeah, whatever.
Michelle Thompson:So, yeah, I'll suggest that definitely what would you like to see more of in like fake well and verse and fellowship and also artists curating. So I was a publisher for nifty gateway and I loved it and I did really well and we made like at least 50k like it was less than a year but then they closed it down because I think what happened is they didn't curate their curators, so they let too many on. They did, but you know, I was having a lovely time, yeah, finding new people bringing them on and it was great, so I would like more of that. I think you know those people are, you know, especiallywell.
Michelle Thompson:It's helping people get seen. It's really hard, like we were talking about before, people seeing your work on Twitter. You know it's so hard to get seen and sometimes when these, the open calls, are quite good as well. You know when people are doing to try and get their work seen. But I would like to see more curation and I would also like to get rid of the idea that everything has to sell immediately for sure. You know, yeah, come on, it's not.
NorCal Guy:Life's not like that no, I agree I I can consistently wish more artists had more things available or at least like hey, if you want to see a portfolio, I'll mint something for you. If you actually want to buy it type of thing, which I've done I've like looked through stuff and like, hey, I want that piece, and then they'll mint it for me and I'll buy it, but yeah, not only having like one piece available or two available it's not.
NorCal Guy:it's like a lot of people might come to like want to buy something and then they just pass on it because there's nothing that they actually like yeah, and it's kind of like we are too scared to mint too much as well.
Michelle Thompson:But I loved it when, erin, you know life with art.
Michelle Thompson:Yeah, yep there was a time where she was minting new work on a regular basis and it just took off and she had a lot of unsold and all of a sudden it all sold. No, it wouldn't have all sold if she only just had one piece on. You know, it was great. It was like why can't we be like this? You know, I have a print store. It's full of stuff, you know, you can go and have a look at it. I understand that, how collectors feel about it. But I think realistically, if we're all waiting for it to sell and then to mint the next one, you know a lot of us are going to be waiting a long time, you know, and we're just waiting for one collector. So that's why I don't know. I think we should be allowed to have more on the market, but I don't know. I don't know what collectors feel about that well, it depends on the collector.
NorCal Guy:I mean, I'm all about like putting more out there, for sure, I think more should. I'm all about additions and, you know, getting more people to collect your work, getting in more wallets type of thing that's always been my um, what I my soap box, soap box that I stand on for sure no, definitely but yeah, it definitely is an older old school thought of two, three years ago when, um, they were like limited supply, constantly raise your floor price, which you know in reality is hasn't worked out too well.
Michelle Thompson:No, I think. Oh, I was thinking I have to be careful what they say on here. But selling my first piece on super rare for a higher price made it quite hard to sell after that. Right right, you know. So there was a bidding war, you know, and I and I sold for 1.89, but at the time that wasn't what I was selling for, you know, and it it did make it hard right?
NorCal Guy:no, and that's like okay. So yeah, I mean this, the whole pricing thing. I mean I don't know if you remember an, a collector named cactics, yeah, yeah, I mean he screwed with a lot of people's heads because all the photographers because he paid so much for their work and they're like my work is worth this much, and then they never sold again. You know, um, yeah, so yeah, I the whole floor price thing.
NorCal Guy:You know, you know, markets change yeah, you have to be willing to adapt, just because you sold at one point, at one, you know, and that's the other thing is like one eath doesn't equal one eath. We've, and that's the other thing is like one ETH doesn't equal one ETH. We've determined that at this point, I believe.
Michelle Thompson:Finally.
NorCal Guy:Oh good, you know, just because he sold it for one ETH back then. You know the dollar value has changed and people aren't willing to spend that much dollar value today, so you have to be willing to adjust.
Michelle Thompson:No, definitely, yeah, value today, so you have to be willing to adjust. No, definitely, yeah, do you so?
NorCal Guy:does brings us to the next question so how do you use supply, like how much is a good amount of supply, and how do you use that with additions versus one of ones and working all that together?
Michelle Thompson:I, I can't afford to buy one of ones, and I'm so, I'm really happy because things did change, didn't they? At the beginning, it just seemed to be one of ones, right, and then suddenly, if a big artist had done an edition, it was like wow, like now I can own a piece of his work or her work. And so I think editions, you know, I think things change from the beginning. You know the scarcity and I think you should have as much to bring in those, um, new collectors.
Michelle Thompson:So I did that drop recently on shape and that brought in a whole. You know, I lowered my price because it was a different platform, a different chain, and it brought in a different type or different collectors I hadn't heard of, you know. So that was great and the same, I think, with Tezos. I had additions that I was selling on Tezos and when I went to Ethereum, those buyers came with me. So I think, you know, at the time you don't always have money for one of ones, but at some point you might. So bringing them in with the additions, that's what I think.
NorCal Guy:No, I agree with that. I'm definitely a. Additions are the way. Kappa collector for sure.
Michelle Thompson:Okay, well, that's good to know, but yeah.
NorCal Guy:I mean, like our, the platform that click that Clutch and I have together is an additions platform, like that's, all we do is additions from artists. So, yeah, it's definitely the future. So if you were an animal, what would you be and why?
Michelle Thompson:We can come to these ones. A dog, okay, because, because, um, I have a dog anyway, but I I like the idea of getting some exercise, going out socializing, but I am a hermit, I like to be be at home, I like to be working, so I think a dog gets all that. My dog's currently lying on my bed, you know, and she's had a good time. So I think, yeah, a dog I don't know what sort of dog, fair, fair.
NorCal Guy:Do you have a favorite food?
Michelle Thompson:Yeah, seafood, oh, everything's seafood. Do you have a favorite food? Yeah, seafood, oh everything seafood. Yeah, um, which I only really have when we go on holiday because we live in the uk and it's not, it's not them. We don't have the best cuisine and seafood. Well, we, we do if we, if I go to a nice restaurant, but yeah, they have for me.
NorCal Guy:What do you guys call it there? The fish and chips? The?
Michelle Thompson:yeah, we have fish and chips and we have cockles and welks, but that's not the type of thing I like. So I I like, you know, octopus and all the lovely Mediterranean diet, but nice.
NorCal Guy:Fair, fair. What's the best piece of advice you've been given? Or do you have like a mantra that kind of runs in your head?
Michelle Thompson:Yeah, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
NorCal Guy:Fair.
Michelle Thompson:So I think COVID showed us how quickly everything can change and just don't rely on anything anymore. You know, that was a real slap in the face for me. You know, I had had constant work ever since I'd graduated and suddenly it stopped. So it was just like, wow, am I gonna do so? You know, I think it's really important. It scared me slightly in 21 when people were like I'm gonna give up my job and I was like thinking this is crazy because I've come.
Michelle Thompson:You know, art hasn't always been. It's not meant to be easy, you know, and it and it wasn't real, and we were living it, thinking is this going to? You know, I thought it was going to last, you know, and obviously it didn't, but yeah. So I would just recommend everyone, you know, have a backup or, do you know, have something else. You know, even a part-time job, it's hard to make art if you're making it to make money. I think, if you have that relief, if you, if you're just, you know, I have illustration, so nfts is whatever I want to do, so I don't have to, you know, be selling it, which I would like to be selling it, but you know. So that I would just make sure you know, and I think that goes for platforms as well. You know, so that I would just make sure you know, and I think that goes for platforms as well. You know, don't just you know, I do Tezos, ethereum, bitcoin. You know, try, you know, see what works not everything works, but you know, not spread yourself thinly, but you know.
NorCal Guy:Right, try things out yeah now with that. So you kind of sounds like you answered, like what advice you would give to artists joining this crypto space, or do you have additional? Oh, okay.
Michelle Thompson:I was like, oh yeah, don't believe the hype. It's really hard to come in and be told who are the best artists you know and what you should be doing. And I just think, don't expect. If you're going to come in, don't expect. If you're going to come in, don't expect anything. Forget who you are or what you've done, because nobody cares here anyway, and be consistent, keep turning up and I think eventually collectors will find you. And you know, like I said before, art's not meant to be easy. You know, I think 21 made new artists especially think that this is what it was like and it's not really like that. So and again, I would say that if they have a job or have something else, so you're not relying on it, when you become desperate to sell, I think you kind of lose your edge to the art no, I agree that's it.
NorCal Guy:So if you could live or move anywhere, where would I would go to Lisbon.
Michelle Thompson:I would. I've spent some time when I was a student there and we also went this summer and I just love it. You've got the sun, the galleries, seafood, loads of seafood, the shopping, but also not too much sun, because I can't work if it's really lovely outside. That's why it's perfect for me living in the UK. I can just look out the window and it's raining, so you know it doesn't like here we go, I'll just do some work, but yeah, I could live in Portugal.
NorCal Guy:Fair, fair.
Michelle Thompson:Do you have any questions for me? Yeah, what did I put? What advice would you give to new artists to be seen?
NorCal Guy:oh, I know to be seen, so that's always a hard one. I mean be a reply guy on. Twitter.
Michelle Thompson:Okay.
NorCal Guy:I think that kind of helps Because then especially if it's like kind of witty or funny, you know inconsistent if you're trying to like get a hold of someone, especially if it's like kind of witty or funny, you know inconsistent If you're trying to like get ahold of someone, if you like really want to talk to someone, um, that's probably the best way to get seen and not be shelling your work, cause then someone will potentially click to your profile and then go see your work, which hopefully is easily found, cause that's the flip side is like easy access to either your link tree, but like actually being able to see your work fairly quickly yeah, there's so many, so no shilling at all no, unless it's like a shill thread maybe, but I don't post those oh, yes, yeah, that's what I mean.
Michelle Thompson:so you know um, because I have um especially. I'm to think there have been shill threads where I have sold. Work Mentalist used to have one, I think that's how in the beginning that I got sales. I mean he doesn't do it anymore, but it was from those threads that people would then go through. So would you ever go through a shill?
NorCal Guy:I've gone, maybe through a couple of them I find it more reliable for me. If I see a notification from specific people about artists, then I'll like go dig deeper. Or if someone recommends an artist type of thing, then I'll dive deeper okay, and do you have collector chats where everyone says no, I mean, I'm sure there are.
NorCal Guy:I I am not a person that follows the hype, um. So yeah, I'm not a trend follower, so I don't buy whatever's hot, whatever. So I mean, that's kind of like why I like saying that I have more genesis pieces of a lot of great artists because I bought them first before they were hyped up.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, that's good, yeah, I, I mean I'm sure there are. I mean I the the chats that I am in with collectors is more like jokes and stuff Like yeah, no, there's. None of the chats I'm in are like coordinated, like pumping things, because I I hate that stuff personally. So, yeah, um, I don't participate in anything like that okay, okay that's it come on yeah, oh, what more?
Michelle Thompson:um, that's all I had. What advice would you give to new artists to be seen? Um, what do you? How do you think it was? What do you think is going to happen in the next five years then? Do you think it's going to change? Are we going to have people representing artists?
NorCal Guy:I mean that definitely seems like kind of a trend right now. It does seem like it's kind of you. I've seen more artists like have some sort of manager type of thing, I think partly because you know it is hard to market yourself yeah to be online and doing that when you want to make art.
NorCal Guy:I mean, yeah, so that's an interesting thought. I mean, I feel AR type stuff is going to be really hot or really cool in the next five years, like augmented reality, because I think VR is still far off. With AR, you can interact with other people, whereas VR is you can interact with people people whereas vr is you can interact with people, but it's not like in person. But yeah, I don't know, that's about it right now I'm off the top of my head.
NorCal Guy:I have no more questions no worries, do you have any projects you're working on or self promotion? Let's do it. Let's do it.
Michelle Thompson:I have just dropped four hours ago on foundation in space world. So, um, that's called oh no, now she forgets disobey. Yeah, so I've just done and I have two pieces available, one of ones on foundation, one is with fake well and one is with space world. So they are both uh 0.3. And tomorrow I'm starting a new collection and I have no idea yet what it's. Well, I have a little piece of paper and I've been working out some ideas, but with collage it's, it's not like you, it kind of makes themselves, you know, like it's a case of just putting the work together and see what happens. So I have an idea, but whether it ends up like that, I have no idea yeah, no, I get that.
NorCal Guy:You. You have this idea, you get started and it just kind of flows and turns into other things and you get ideas and it grows.
Michelle Thompson:Yeah.
NorCal Guy:I get it.
Michelle Thompson:I quite like the idea of so the color scapes which you just collected two pieces. That's the first time that I've done a collection and so that was quite nice to work on something. It was 15 pieces, but yeah, so I think it will be a collection again nice and, um, it was quite nice to get the different collectors in, but then the collectors were talking on twitter and you know about which pieces, and so that was quite nice as well. Yeah, so yeah sweet.
NorCal Guy:well, I will have to check out the two pieces on foundation, but and super rare. And super rare. Have a look there. True, I have scattered that one out.
Michelle Thompson:But I look forward to your new collection in the next couple months.
NorCal Guy:Thank you, and.
Michelle Thompson:Could be, it might take longer than that, but yes, the the thing is the way I work, is they? They kind of I have this plan chest over here and they sit on the plan chest and they can sit. It could be months and then finally it it gets sorted. But yeah, I have to look at them for quite a while fair, that's fair so who knows?
NorCal Guy:they got they. They can only come when they, when they're when they're due yeah well, michelle, I just want to thank you for your time today. I actually I really enjoyed uh this chat. It was really fun to talk with you it's a good job.
Michelle Thompson:you weren't filming it. Look how red I am. Thank you, yeah, I had a great time.
NorCal Guy:It was really nice to meet you. And maybe at a future event, who knows? In Lisbon? No, I won't be there.
Michelle Thompson:Oh, oh, I have to come to america pretty much okay yeah, I got three little kids.
NorCal Guy:I'm not traveling anywhere oh yeah, of course yeah, future, future time. But yeah, well, thank you again and I hope you have a great evening and enjoy that gin and tonic yeah that's what you said it
Intro:was okay, yeah awesome, cool.
NorCal Guy:Well, you have a great day and we'll talk soon thank you.
Michelle Thompson:Who is?
NorCal Guy:this guy. It's showtime your Cal and Chill podcast. What the show the show? Your Cal and Chill podcast. So it's showtime your Cal and Chill podcast. What the show, what the show.