NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
Exploring the Evolution of Crypto Art with Erick Snowfro: From NFTs to Fidgetals
Join us on a fascinating journey with Erick Snowfro, a visionary in the digital art and NFT space, as we uncover the evolution of crypto art and its integration into modern culture. Hear firsthand how a white elephant gift exchange involved a CryptoPunk, adding a playful layer to the serious business of art collecting. Erick reveals his initial skepticism about NFTs and shares insights on the emerging concept of "fidgetals," a hybrid of physical and digital art, while emphasizing the importance of preserving digital purity.
Travel back to simpler times with us as we reminisce about childhood collections, from comic cards to memorabilia, and explore how these experiences shape our understanding of digital collectibles today. Erickf and I discuss the initial hurdles and eventual embrace of digital rarity, highlighted by platforms like NBA Top Shot and CryptoKitties. We’ll take you through the vibrant community interactions on platforms like Discord and examine how digital art is breaking barriers, making art ownership more accessible than ever.
As we look toward the future, Erick provides a visionary perspective on the intersection of digital assets with fashion and physical products, imagining a world where digital art is as accessible as picking up a print at IKEA. With a focus on balancing exclusivity and accessibility, we explore the promising potential of digital art in consumer experiences, from personalized collections to broader institutional adoption. All this is wrapped up in the playful and relaxed vibe that defines the NorCal and Shill Podcast, making this episode a must-listen for art enthusiasts and digital explorers alike.
Who is this? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy NorCal guy NorCal guy NorCal guy. Norcal guy NorCal guy. Norcal and chill podcast Show. It's chill time. Norcal and chill podcast.
Erick Snowfro:What the sh? What the sh? Norcal and Shill Podcast. What the shill, what the shill? Norcal and Shill Podcast. So it's shill time, norcal and Shill.
NorCal Guy:Podcast what the shill, what the shill. Hey, everyone, welcome to this next episode of NorCal and Shill. Today we have Eric, also known as Snowfro. He is the founder of Artblocks and creator of the Squiggle. He's a hybrid technologist and artist. He supports Artblocks through his ideas, creativity and curiosity, all stemming from a love of color, design, his family and the limitless boundaries of generative art. Everybody, please welcome Eric. Hey Eric, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Erick Snowfro:I'm doing good, man. Thank you so much for having me. How are you doing I?
NorCal Guy:am good. I am good, it's a nice day, you know nice weather and I get to be stuck inside, which is pretty cool, but at least I get to talk to cool people. That's what.
NorCal Guy:that's the flip side, you look like you're in a very padded room that can serve multiple purposes in our ecosystem it's so when I make a bad trade on something I make a random like decision on, I could just scream as loud as I can in this work, co-working, whatever space I'm in and no one can hear me. It's perfect, brilliant. It's only big enough for one, though, so it's perfect, that's awesome. So I know you've been in the space for a little while, but what were your first thoughts when you heard about because they weren't called nfts back then, but like crypto art and then, I guess, transitioning into nfts, like let's hear some history well, interestingly, there's been a.
Erick Snowfro:There's an old tweet of mine from 2018 that's currently um, getting some some attention. It's, it's, there's some gold back there, man, from like what random eric was tweeting out there, but I hashtagged erc20 when I posted a tweet about crypto punks. Okay, uh, I did a, I did a white elephant gift from my office and, like, what I brought was a CryptoPunk and it was 20 bucks. Actually, I think I broke the rule. It was 30 bucks and I hashtagged it ERC20 because the word NFT didn't. Well, I'm sure it maybe existed but, like, at the time, that wasn't the top of mind.
Erick Snowfro:I think Dapper Labs and CryptoKitties, I think, were the ones that kind of formally started using the word NFT. When we claimed CryptoPunks, it was just a thing, a digital object, right, and so, yeah, it's weird because there wasn't. You know, cryptokitties came very soon after CryptoPunks and you know they really kind of set the groundwork for a more formal protocol and before that there had been some things that, when you look back, they were non-fungible tokens, they were things that represented digital assets, but it kind of changed at that point. In fact, when the word NFT first came out, I was like, man, that's like trying to be a buzzword, I kind kind of was like I don't know how to do with these I mean, I right I?
Erick Snowfro:collected them and bought them, but, like I, you know, it just felt like this. It just felt kind of weird. Yeah, it was to me, uh, yeah, and and then a few years later, it again started feeling a little bit gross to me when people call it, you know, n art Not that there's anything wrong with calling things NFT art, but it was like no, no, no, it's just art, you know, right. Right, it became such a buzzword.
NorCal Guy:It, did, it did. I mean it's kind of like the current, like some people are trying to get fidgetles going, oh no.
Erick Snowfro:That I have a strong aversion to that word. Well, I have a lot of thoughts on the digital concept too, like I. Just I, you know, I think that we're, you know, I. I promised myself when I started being in this ecosystem that I would not square peg around a whole anything, or at least I wouldn't be part of something.
Erick Snowfro:And, to be fair, I support the digital thing because I have a lot of signed prints from artists that have promised never to sign more than one print of their digital art, of their NFT. So I'm complicit entirely in this concept of a digital. But to me there's something incompatible there that just kind of makes me uncomfortable with the idea that the digital asset can potentially lose value when separated from the physical. There's also something really fun from a collector's perspective of keeping something virgin that hasn't been printed, assuming that when you do decide to print it it will be printable and the artist will be willing and able to sign it. But yeah, fidgetle that word I can play it with pigtails, I don't know, that's just kind of the word that goes.
NorCal Guy:that's like the visual image that goes through my mind when I hear that, yeah, I wish, I wish it was a different word, like I don't know why we're how that word came about, but just like it's just not, it's not right well, I'm uh spending a lot of time thinking through this concept of digital optional, physical optional, which currently is dopo, which is, I think, even worse so you know I need a.
Erick Snowfro:I think I need to go to uh chat gpt and be like, okay, here's this concept and this is clearly the acronym I'm using for it, and there's no way that I'm gonna like actually use this acronym in public, and so can you please help me come up with a nicer, more elegant term for it?
NorCal Guy:so yeah, oh yeah, it only gets worse, for sure, all right, all right. So if you could live or move anywhere, where would you live and why?
Erick Snowfro:well, okay, there's a couple. So if I could, if I had to move somewhere, I really like the beach and I really like Hawaii. So maybe probably on a beach in Hawaii somewhere would be great, or near the beach. But you know, I have this kind of cynical view. I live in Houston and I have this cynical view where, like, I actually think Houston is the best place to live for me and to raise a family, in that anywhere you go is a treat. Like you, I have an uncle that lives in the Bahamas and you know he lives on the water and I I remember one time I was visiting him I was like, how often do you go to the beach?
Erick Snowfro:And he's like once or twice a year. And I was like, and he's like, yeah, no, like we take it for granted. You, just when you live on a beautiful beach, it's just like this is your daily thing. Just kind of how we can sometimes take for granted the beauty of the art that's out in this ecosystem, or even like the, the, the magnitude of the artwork that we've had a chance to collect because we were early in this ecosystem. Sometimes you kind of take it for granted.
Erick Snowfro:But right, um, yeah, houston is a very flat, um, pretty green, uh city that I would say, other than the food and the art is, is there's nothing really exceptional and that makes any vacation or even like a business trip like a treat. Uh, it's also like a relatively safe city and, uh, relatively low cost of living. So living, so I don't know that I'd want to leave this town, but if I were to Hawaii or, more reasonably, probably Denver, I guess if they're just going to be real about what could actually be accessible, All right, all right, I like those Solid choices be accessible.
NorCal Guy:All right, all right, I like those solid choices. I mean I do like your point like live somewhere that's fine, but then you appreciate when you do go to those dream destinations.
Erick Snowfro:I mean we have a beach 50 miles from here and it's like it's okay you know like and we go to it because if you close, your eyes, you're at the beach and it's great, right. But you know, then you go to florida or hawaii or mexico and it's like, okay, yeah, this is for sure, for sure.
NorCal Guy:So what is the best piece of advice you have been given?
Erick Snowfro:ever ever oh man, um, I don't know that it was given directly, like no one ever said this to me, but I think, just you know, my dad's always been someone that has taught me to be kind to people and to always just be kind and give people the benefit of the doubt, although I'm human and I often don't. But I think that's just kind of the way things go, especially within this ecosystem.
NorCal Guy:that we're in Lately.
Erick Snowfro:I feel like giving people the benefit of the doubt. I should program myself to do the opposite if I'm doing that. But yeah, just be kind. You know I think that there's not enough kindness in this world and I think that you know, nobody hates kindness, unless you're like a supervillain in a movie and there's an opportunity to kind of like maybe make somebody's day, and oftentimes that comes around and you know you don't do it for that reason. I think if you do it for that reason, I think you're kind of like going to be gravely disappointed in humanity. But you know, I think there's a lot of things that have gone well in my life that come as a result of just trying to like empathize and be compassionate with people and be a kind person, and that's a model that my dad and my mom set as a standard in my household and I try really hard with my kids to do the same. It's uh, it's really tough. Uh, sometimes it's tough to be kind to my kids right um, but yeah, I'd say that.
NorCal Guy:I like that. That's solid. Solid, sometimes hard, but, yes, very good. Do you collect, or did you collect art or anything else like baseball cards, comics, before you got into the crypto art space?
Erick Snowfro:Yeah, I collected a lot of things. I collected a lot of things. In fact. We just moved and there was a storage thing at the old house and my wife's like, hey, can you come help me? And we moved six months ago actually. So I was like, actually, if I don't come help you, I don't know that those things exist. So like if you just go and throw them away, like we will be better off as a result of this.
Erick Snowfro:And we went and a lot of the things ended up being things from her childhood and I was like, you see, like we just shouldn't, you know. And she's like, well, where's all your stuff? I'm like, well, it's in a closet at my parents' house. So I didn't have to necessarily keep up with it. So it's not fair to her, obviously, but I collected comic cards. I collected comic books as a kid. I collected lighters and playing cards from every place I went to. When I was young.
Erick Snowfro:I was very fortunate to get to do a lot of travel with my family and so I have this like massive collection of playing cards from, like you know, hundreds of cities and right in places and states and countries that I've been to, um collected some art. Uh, maybe around the age of 30 I bought my first kind of quote-unquote expensive piece of art. I paid $400 for a piece and I gave it to my wife as a gift and it was the first real kind of expenditure that I had made towards art. Before that and since then, a really good friend of mine, carlos Bozo, is a screen printer and he would always sell these really wonderful edition prints for 35, 40 bucks and that you know I think that's a testament to kind of like well, maybe I have a hoarding mentality and collecting mentality, but you know it doesn't have to be expensive to be incredibly valuable to you.
Erick Snowfro:And I just remember even there was just too many to even frame. And so you know I have like shelves full of these like beautiful screen prints that I would occasionally just pull out and look through, the same way that maybe people can resonate with doing that with comic cards. When you're a kid you know you'd collect the whole set if you were lucky enough to. And it's like, well, once you collect it, what do you do? And it's like, well, once you collect it, what do you do? You're just going to pull them off the shelf every now and then and look at them again and just think about that moment when you open that card pack or there's the holograms which I'll never forget. I mean I can almost remember opening the packs and seeing the holograms as if it was yesterday.
NorCal Guy:Oh, that's awesome, that makes sense. That makes sense. A lot of us did collect something for sure. Yeah, what did you collect? I had a ton of basketball cards like oh really yeah, who top shot? I did and I got in the top. That's what I initially got me into. The the digital art space was top nba top shots no way did we interact back then I doubt, doubt it. I, I was, I mean before I started buying like one of one and generative art.
NorCal Guy:I was like off of Twitter uh as far as being vocal, I was only in like I was in the NBA top shots discord, but barely. I was in like moon overlords discord for a little bit. I was in like Moon Overlord's Discord for a little bit, oh.
Erick Snowfro:I've heard of that. But yeah, I mean Arblox was delayed because of Top Shot. You know I would sit there on the Discord and trade $1 moments with the other people that were buying a bunch of packs because I wanted 10 full sets of Top Shot, and so you know I would be able to do that a little bit more easily with like the, the kind of the fancier ones, the platinum ones, I can't remember what they call it the ones that were like more fancy.
Erick Snowfro:but yeah, I would sit there with tables and databases of like my. You know, I have seven of these and you have 14 of these. You know, can we do? But I had 35 of these and they were worth a dollar each, which so it really wasn't like a. This goes kind of back to like the screen print collecting or like this wasn't based on value, it's. It's actually probably like some kind of disease to me to just like have full sets and it's like, oh, I'm going to have three full sets, and then it's like, well, well, man like I'm really close to that fourth and then somebody sold me a big lot of 500 cards.
Erick Snowfro:shit, I can get to six. It was there's a um, uh, pretty wild time, but yeah that was fun.
NorCal Guy:I had a really fun time.
Erick Snowfro:If you were in the discord. You know I was in there pretty vocally that and I was in the back and uh dming with roham, which felt very relevant to them. Our blocks was released later, just like some people some key people would reach out and like dm and like share their views, positive or negative, about what was going on. It was like one year later it was like the exact same thing.
NorCal Guy:It's interesting right, oh, that's so funny. No, I mean I got in mainly because it's like I finally read enough articles that I'm like I made the switch. Like, okay, digital rare art which for some reason, like bitcoin, made sense from like the get-go, like, oh yeah, it's digitally rare. And then when I thought about art, I was like, oh, that's stupid. Maybe it was because it was when I heard about it was tied to crypto kitties and I'm just like that's so dope.
Erick Snowfro:Um, yeah, but yeah I love crypto kitties, but I mean I can understand that being an entry point, that just feels very weird. I mean, a lot, of, a lot of us back then were just looking for a damn excuse to use the blockchain like we had. Each was cheap and it's like I just need I any app that would come around that had something new. It's like, oh cool, I'll try this too. And there's fingerprints. Which is beautiful about blockchain. There's fingerprints of mine, probably on like I don't know 30 or 40 different dApps that were around at the time, which is all that there was Right Just because we wanted to like experiment with the technology.
NorCal Guy:Oh man, that's so funny Because for me so I was like a Bitcoin maxi at that point. And I was like a Bitcoin maxi at that point and I was just like, oh, it's so stupid. I got the stack of ETH, I don't know what to do with it, I'm not going to do with these stupid kitties. And then I was just like, whatever, I'm just going to stack, just buy, you know, dca. And then, when I got to the crypto art, it's like, oh, I can finally do something with my E and I just fell in love with it. So it's kind of funny.
Erick Snowfro:What's the first piece you ever bought, Do you remember? Yeah, yeah yeah, it was an art, kind of art, for the sake of art itself. Piece.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, so it was on Rarible and it was like the Pepe Scream or Scream, but Pepe, oh yeah, and it was like a chart going down to zero. So that was my very first piece that I bought. Oh, you really went deep with the art stuff. Yeah, it was an edition, which is funny, because the first stuff that I was buying was editions and then it switched to one-on-ones. For some reason, the space changed.
Erick Snowfro:Yeah.
NorCal Guy:But yeah, that's, and then art blocks was uh, from pepe's to art blocks yeah, so that was. I bought that one pepe and then like in that discord they were talking about flipping art blocks and I'm like, oh god, easy money shit came for the flip stage for the art I did.
NorCal Guy:I did so I, which is funny because I didn't meant squiggles, I didn't, I was too late for that, I was too late for ringers, um, but I was in on the color studies, which wasn't. It wasn't a flip, that one was not like a flipping one, but I like minted a lot of those dude you gifted me, like maybe my favorite jeff davis piece of all time, oh well, it was an awesome piece and we were just chatting.
NorCal Guy:You know, it was so chill to like see the mint um channel and comment on each other's mints. It was so fun and I would just sit there and like watch the mints go through and I was like, oh, it's been a while since a rare one came through. Maybe I should throw like 20 transactions through and see if I can land one. So that was fun. That was fun. That was a big addition to 2000.
Erick Snowfro:Yeah, it took some time. It was, it was beautiful. It took some time that that. That will live forever, as some of my favorite memories in Artbox was specifically color study, like the timing that it came out at and like the time that it took to come out or to mint out while people were already understanding this whole thing.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, it did, I don't know. It felt like it was like three, four weeks that it took to mint out.
Erick Snowfro:I don't remember exactly.
NorCal Guy:But I remember when I went to go mint some again like when it was getting closer to the end, and then it just like sold out and you're like, oh, I missed minting the end, but it was good, it was good. But yeah, after that it was onto other bar art blocks to flip and I remember and then I quickly was like these are probably really historic. This is really stupid. I'm gonna just hold these.
Erick Snowfro:So that's what I did cool and you still have them today yeah, yep, that's cool, still have them today.
NorCal Guy:I remember like I remember when I only bought one ringer, unfortunately for like one eath, and I was like that's a lot of money. I don't.
Erick Snowfro:Hopefully it doesn't go down I mean, I remember when my friend pete was bidding on the goose and I was like, dude, that's a lot of money, man right, I'm so glad that you like believe in this thing that I'm doing and I'm very proud. And he's like no man trust me like this is, this is going to be a special piece. I'm like I know it's a special piece but like yeah, I think even at that point it might have been an all-time high for an arblocks piece when it was yeah, he first bought it, so um the foresight that he had is right crazy and now it's coming
NorCal Guy:back man it is, it is, and I remember the. Was it the 911 ringer? I think it was like red the ambulance maybe, yeah yeah, that one was kind of cool too. There's a lot of cool ones anyways, it was really cool um, and it's just funny how the mindset changes. Like you're like oh, and then you like I don't have enough of these now, but yeah, uh, what are the best things about web three today?
Erick Snowfro:Oh, it's hard sometimes to answer that.
NorCal Guy:Um, I mean, there's some fantastic things.
Erick Snowfro:It's just kind of a a time when people aren't necessarily at their best. But, um, you know, I think this is, this is kind of a theory that I've kind of been thinking um to myself and sharing with some people. That seems to resonate that like uh and and squiggles kind of maybe interleave into this. That you know, we talk about how people act in certain ways when they hide behind a pfp, like they might be doing things that they may not do in public. Right, like even flipping art like you may not be willing to at a farmer's market or like a small art market where an artist is selling pieces, walk up to the table and buy like all of the pieces of the art and then turn around and be like, hey, do you want these? Like they're great, ten times more expensive, and and kind of not gloat.
Erick Snowfro:but, like in this space, you know there was a lot of like tweeting about that and um and, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. But, just like you know, there's people that are acting in ways well, and then you have the people that are really just kind of like high frequency, uh, flipping, but but they're also just like focused on inefficiencies in the market, and that happens in the real world as well. Like there are people that just stock trade all day long on pennies based on huge transactions, based on inefficiencies in the market. But, like, for every person that is, maybe, and they have the rugs and the scams. And I think that for every person that is out there maybe like so the the true, more kind of criminals, right, like the rugs and the scams, and I think that for every person that is out there maybe like so the true, more kind of criminals, right, like the rugs and the scams, and for every one of those, I think there's like a human on the complete opposite of the spectrum that is also acting in a way that they would not act in public, but in terms of like kindness, or in terms of being like more open or more like raw and more vulnerable.
Erick Snowfro:I think that you know the, this ecosystem, that kind of hiding behind a pfp, has enabled some people you know it's not it's not cool necessarily to be nice, like it's not cool to support your friends, it's not cool, you know to to, like you know root for for, root for other people.
Erick Snowfro:And I think this ecosystem and this kind of interconnected digital object revolution, I guess, has brought out the best in a lot of people, and even those people falter sometimes.
Erick Snowfro:I mean, we all go through some rough patches and and and have some hard times, but I think that the the world is generally, there's always going to be scammers and there's always going to be, like crappy people out there, but the world would generally be better If people tended to be on a slightly more nice trajectory supportive, empathetic, compassionate, passionate, like I, like, I just you know, like people have been able to like, I think even artists, I think are able to kind of share passion in a way that doesn't feel so um, uh, analyzed or overanalyzed, like it's just like.
Erick Snowfro:This is this ecosystem, and I'd say that that is maybe one of the greatest things about web3 is that there's like this opportunity to kind of normalize kindness and, through this interconnectivity of digital objects in a way that happens. You could do that within friends in person, you know, but like there's a very significant limit of what you can do with friends in person I mean just 100 people in a room maybe and then after that it just becomes completely unreasonable to like manage those relationships, and so, while the relationships on twitter discord may be a little bit less deep, just because we're talking through text and you know, um and having conversations with a lot of people, I think that there's a lot more of them and I think that this ecosystem and the digital ownership value proposition has kind of encouraged that and I think it's a really beautiful thing.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, it's definitely interesting the whole PFP thing. It's like there's you definitely have the criminals, the rugs, but because your reputation is like can be easily gone, like there's a lot of trust as well, like it's amazing, like I can like do business with someone with like not even having to worry about contracts or anything. You're like, hey, you want to do this, do this, let's do it. And it's interesting all the amount of trust because you're trying to. You want to keep the reputation that you have for a quality person or being that you know that guy that's dependable for sure.
Erick Snowfro:Exactly and we're seeing people build tools to help, you know, discover reputation within the ecosystem, and I think those tools are frightening for some people. I think, and rightfully so, but also, um, I think, that it could be really helpful. I have these thoughts that in five, 10 years, if the kind of institutional adoption of this becomes a little bit more significant than it already is and it's already pretty impactful in that we have museums collecting this art I think that the most knowledgeable people about not just the art but these artists are the people that are on crypto Twitter every single day, watching the careers unfold, like watching the first drop at 0.1 ETH and then drops at 60 ETH a year and a half later, but like literally having been there the entire time and participated and interacted with it and those, well, it seems like there's a lot of people on Twitter. There's not that many. I mean, there's thousands of museums in the world.
Erick Snowfro:There's more museums in the world than the amount of people that understand meaningfully and deeply exactly what's happening in this ecosystem, and I see a world where, like in five or ten years, the people that kind of are able to uphold their reputation. Um will be the will be the go-to thought leaders and experts, not within our little echo chamber, but like in the world of art um, you know, might be the curators of museums that they sure as hell, in 2021, did not wake up to thinking, hey, one day I want to be the curator of a museum and, yeah, there's a lot of history to learn and there's a lot of background to understand and a lot of mechanics. But, you know, we, we have seen a introduction of art to a significantly broader audience and when the museum started collecting, I, you know, I tweeted that I think, objectively, you know, probably 10,000 more people in the world own art that is held by a major institution than before those were collected, and that's a pretty big, swift addition of people participating in the dialogue at the institutional level.
NorCal Guy:That's very true. Speaking about the future, where do you see digital art in five years? Do you have any concerns as it expands?
Erick Snowfro:I mean, I think digital art has been a medium that people have been dedicating time to for a long time. It just kind of has generally not always fallen under the radar a bit in terms of appreciation, and I think a lot of that is just the ephemeral nature of, like, a file attached to an email or on a thumb drive. And I think, not just digital art but digital assets in general. To me it feels and I know it's kind of a bullish thought, but it feels inevitable to me that anything of value that is digital will eventually be secured using this technology. So as this technology grows, digital art, I think, will also kind of grow in recognition and value and adoption, and I think it's just a matter of time. I do think we know we've touched on, like the fidget rule concept, no-transcript, think as we, as as we see more of the ephemeral, physical, this, you know, digital, optional, physical, optional thought process. I think that we're going to see a slightly first, slightly larger than like a snowball in consumer adoption as people realize that they they buy something because they like it. You know, if you you're walking down the shopping mall and you walk by a lids store, you know they sell hats and you're like, oh man, I like that hat, like you're just gonna walk in there and buy the hat, like how, that's how we've bought things our entire lives. It's like, ooh, I like that thing, I'm going to get that thing. And right now, in this ecosystem, it's not that at all. It's like, ooh, I'm going to buy this digital thing that I can exchange for this physical thing, but within this small window, and there's going to be a Dutch auction for this drop, and there's artificial limitations of scarcity when it comes to these physical things sometimes.
Erick Snowfro:And, um, I think that in the next, I think in the next five years, you know, uh, this concept of, like you know, walking up to an ikea and swiping a cracker for 20 bucks and getting a very high quality print of a generative output that is unique to you but part of a larger family, I, I think it's, you know, I used to say it as a pipe dream a couple years ago and today I actually think we're not very far off from that and I, I think brands will be very interested in you know this, uh, as someone on my team recently referred to it as, like, you know, crm 2.0, where it's like, not these mailing lists and you know opting out and unsubscribe, but it's, you know. You know who your clients are and what they're buying habits are for those that opt in in a public way with with the types of digital objects that they highlight and they collect, right that's really interesting and I kind of like that a lot.
NorCal Guy:You know everyone going towards these additions of some sort customized to you, instead of buying like a print that's already pre-framed type thing. Yeah, I like it a lot. So what is your favorite movie quote?
Erick Snowfro:shit. It's kind of crazy that this is the first thing that comes to mind, but, uh, tommy boy is probably like my favorite movie and, uh, for all the youngins out there, I highly encourage you watch it. Um, but there's just this moment where, uh, david spade looks to chris farley and says, and says, your father could sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman wearing white gloves. Oh yeah, I just. It just always has resonated with me Like I grew up very entrepreneurial-minded and my dad is an entrepreneur as well and he's always just kind of tinkered with all sorts of different businesses and ideas, even if he never executed it. He just loved to talk about like opportunities.
Erick Snowfro:Yeah, and it's really just like in a deep dive into like what makes people tick, like what makes what brings people joy or value, and, um, you know, I was pretty young when I first watched tommy boy and I just remember hearing that and thinking about my dad and like just kind of like his constant, like you know his ability to interact with people, his ability to kind of like you know, um, understand what, what make people tick, and be able to like accommodate that and, uh, I mean there's a lot of other quotes in that movie that would also be very relevant to kind of what's happening within our ecosystem today, but I would I would have to go with that one all right, all right, I like it.
NorCal Guy:What would you like to see more of in the digital art space?
Erick Snowfro:Well, critique, I think, would be great, like we're all critiquing ourselves, we're all critiquing each other and a lot of that is constructive and very positive, which I think is also good. I think we need that. But we don't have a lot of external voices, outside voices, in the critique process and when when they are, they're usually commentary on on price, like usually external media, and commentary from the outside of our with our echo chamber, of our ecosystem, whichever you want to prefer. Like is is is triggered by price action and price activity and very rarely triggered by like artistic intent and sentiment. And you know, money flows easy sometimes in this ecosystem and sometimes it's, like, you know, very hard.
Erick Snowfro:But like these are still humans and they're still artists and they're still out there trying to develop a career and understand, like the impact that they're making on other people with their work and the impact has expanded dramatically with the way that they're making on other people with their work and the the impact has expanded dramatically with the way that people share art today, like, if you think about, you know, like Andy Warhol's career within his first, you know, few years, the trajectory would have been significantly different than the trajectory of, like Grant Yoon or even like myself, in terms of like how many people you have touched in that short amount of time at such an early point in in the career and the, and what that means to me is that the opportunity to like engage with more people is there, like way more people than in the, you know 1900s, but by far just from like the digital technology that's out there. Um, and I think what, what gives me confidence, is when I get critique on my work, both positive and negative, like, I think, just to understand, you know, sometimes just to get you off your high horse about some shit. Like you know, I I'm relatively not, uh, you know, arrogant about all the things that have happened, but we are human and sometimes these things can kind of get to your head and you might make some decisions that seem totally reasonable to you, but then you think, gosh, what would, two years ago, eric thought of that decision? I think critique can help get us closer to a state of homeostasis, which is really what this ecosystem needs in order for the value to be accrued to the content versus the value to be accrued to the technology, which we are very far away from the peak of value being accrued to the technology Although I do think 2021 and 2022 suffered greatly from that within this ecosystem for better or worse and significantly more value is being accrued to the content itself.
Erick Snowfro:Critique from outside voices can help reach that level of homeostasis where, like 95% of the value is accrued to the content, and I do think some value should be accrued to the technology, for the same reason that people pay for a platinum or a gold ring. Well, gold, I guess, is more just for looks, but more durable metals. Maybe a titanium watch because it's lighter. The technology makes it more expensive, but ultimately you just want the watch. There's opportunity there for critique to really kind of impact that definitely what is the best thing, and the silliest thing you've spent money on ever or in the NFT world
Erick Snowfro:let's stick to the NFT world gosh okay, world, let's stick to the nft world. Gosh, um, okay, uh, that's so hard. I, you know, my wife and I made a joint decision to buy an archetype cube, uh, right after they launched, for by far the most amount of money we had ever spent on anything in our entire lives, right, um, and which is uh, laughable compared to, I think, kind of what the market might assign value to it today. But there was this you know, I've been following chettle since well before artbox and you know he's, he's huge inspiration for me as a human and also as an artist and, um, you know, discovering the emergent trait of the cube uh you know, as we, especially at that time, as we were releasing projects, like I personally had very little uh time to dive into every single project and I had heard that, you know, there was going to be a couple different variants.
Erick Snowfro:But when I saw that, and I saw it on the secondary market and I was like, yeah, this, this is a thing that I must own right, and I think the reason that it's so special is because my wife, who at that point you know was had really come around I mean, she had to listen to me yammer on about art blocks for four years and, you know, surprised, she didn't give up on me entirely, but, um, you know, there was a moment there where we both recognized like this thing as being like so incredibly special.
Erick Snowfro:So I'd say maybe that's yeah, it's hard to rank, so I'd say that'd be in the top of the list, the dumbest thing, the dumbest thing. You know, a lot of people would tell me that my wolf game, alpha 8 wolf, was the dumbest thing that I ever spent money on, and I would tell them that we should sit down and talk about a lot of other things that involve what that all means within this ecosystem, because I feel very proud and honored to own that thing, but I did get a lot of pushback on that. What is the dumbest thing I've spent money on? Um, I don't know. I mean I don't. Well, I mean, yes, all the rugs that I participated in that I got rugged, you know, scammed out of easily, maybe overly trusting people that I thought I knew or wanted to kind of build a relationship with Some of my investments.
Erick Snowfro:I think in the NFT space would qualify in a similar vein and then just a bunch of dumb nfts that I love. I love them so much I just bought a bunch of like forgot what they're called but they're these nfts with like a cow and a sheep and a lamb and a, and it's just. It's so dumb and so amazing at the same time and like if anybody wanted to question me on it, I'd be like, look whatever, like we need, we need to have a lighter side to this ecosystem awesome.
NorCal Guy:Are there any projects or work coming up that you'd like to discuss?
Erick Snowfro:well, I think, I think, um, specifically, it's hard to talk about the projects as to where they're going to go, because obviously there's roadmap aversion in my life and also this ecosystem is really hardcore. But I am spending meaningful time no-transcript and wanting to come in and kind of capitalize on the people that are in this ecosystem when, like I I believe that fashion brands I believe that you know all sorts of companies can actually, I believe that you know all sorts of companies can actually encapsulate that same early moment in Artblocks within their own audience and their own base of clientele. Every single brand can do that. I mean, artblocks kind of became a micro little ecosystem. Every single brand can create that sense of connectivity and excitement.
Erick Snowfro:And, you know, I'd I'd love it if there was like a sneaker drop and like when you bought your sneaker, it came out on like a sneaker mint channel on discord and people were like, oh shit, you got a really good one, send me that one, or I don't know.
Erick Snowfro:I just I think there's a really big opportunity there. And so what I'm dedicating my um, any spare time that I have is on working on projects that are going to follow that digital optional, physical optional model. You know something that if you want to buy the physical and you know you have absolutely no interest in participating in our ecosystem, you can just throw the seed phrase away, like the seed phrase will be printed on like a little right, like index card inside the box and like you're like, yeah, this is I just want, I just want, I just want this hat. So I'm just going to like I don't, I don't care about anything but the hat. And then for the people that are interested in this ecosystem, you know they have a different way of selling things, of consuming, and so maybe those people will get to mint something that entitles them to a hat and you know, it's like the like I'm looking at this as in this very much comes from the fact that I read my four-year-old books about trains every single day.
Erick Snowfro:But like we need uh, this is gonna sound cheesy, but like we need the golden spike man, like we need the golden spike that connects the two and um, I don't think that I'm gonna get it right or straight, but like I, that's. All I can think about is that I believe that my job, both as a creator, as a thought leader and as CEO of Artblocks, is to crack the nut of the golden spike from the consumer world and the frenzy that is the digital space, and so I'm working on a variety of projects that are really a gonna fit that physical, digital, optional model. Look, you may see projects released by snowfro that are 25 dollars to mint with like a unlimited, like it's just unlimited, and it's not a one hour window or a 24 hour window, it is an indefinite window. It's like if you break your iPhone, you go get another iPhone. If you want two iPhones, you buy two iPhones. And I think the scarcity model is very relevant to art for the sake of art itself for a number of reasons, and I think that anything that I release as art for the sake of art itself will have scarcity to it. A because I want to be able to control the outputs and make sure that they're within some bounds, and also the variability is compelling.
Erick Snowfro:But not everybody on the planet is interested in, you know, collecting the finest of the finest arts. But people do enjoy creativity. I mean people that you know buy certain clothing brands, like they appreciate the graphic and the design contest content of that brand, and so I'm my, my personal goal is to like, push out projects that are like this golden spike between, you know, like the East and the West and the NFT space and the and the physical realm, because I think, I don't think there's enough of that. I think, you know, we're so consumed with extracting from the same people and we have to be careful, because when you go into the physical world, you know you don't want to leave out the people that have been your supporters this whole time. And this is where this digital, physical optional thing it's like look, it's optional. If you don't want the physical, you just want to, like, you know, interact, nft, great.
Erick Snowfro:I also see a world where you have like a I don't know a 13 year old that is on twitter that um, like, wants a pfp that's unique to them, but is not going to spend not even the like 200 to buy what we consider a cheap nft right, but has this collection of something along the lines of a 25 thing that just happens to come with a digital thing and that becomes their like MetaMask verified, or, you know, twitter verified ownership of an artwork PFP, and we don't cater to those things. In fact, the things that end up in that price point are things that generally people don't want within our ecosystem because, whatever, either the art was weird or because it was rugged or whatever, like, can we have something of value, appropriate value, for $25 in this ecosystem that, look, maybe it's an addition of a year only because there's also trends and so, like you know, for the same reason that clothing companies they don't have the same shirts every year all year long they like they go through like the fall and the summer, so there can be like long-term time limitations, just like, hey, it's time for a new project, so you get rid of the old one. Can we have a world where, like, in 10 years, that $25 thing is worth $35 and people are excited about it, like um and and so, yeah, that's that's. That's where I'm focusing the majority of my non, like you know, kind of corporate time with Artblocks is trying to figure out what does that look like, both for my own personal projects and as a demonstration to the outside world that there's inherent value in the digital object period and if you participate in that, we're not going to have ENS airdrops in the real world all the time. But look, the first time, if I do an addition and half the people throw away the receipt, it's almost like I would thrive.
Erick Snowfro:The more people that throw away that seed phrase like, the more happy I'd be, because a year later I'd be like hey, by the way, like anyone that has this digital object, like object like I, you know, it could be as little as you get 10 off the next one. It could be like hey, take this next digital object for free, all right, right. Like the people that threw away the receipt are gonna be like, at least they're gonna be like oh, that's like, that's what this is about, like it's kind of like a trojan horse thing here. Where it's like oh, that's what it's about, they may still not give a shit and that's fine. The people that kept the receipt because they threw it in a drawer are going to go digging through that drawer because it's free stuff and hopefully meaningful free stuff because it's coming from a person that has made other meaningful things. Then you're going to have that 1% of people that actually bought the physical object, put the digital thing into their vault because they know how to operate in this ecosystem and they're going to be the first to be able to kind of capitalize on that.
Erick Snowfro:Um, whatever that future value is that um, delight of realizing where, where we've experienced the ens airdrops at a, you know, crazy scale. Like most average human beings would be very excited to get like a 25 thing for free, and, and, and, and and. Tell their friends like, hey, yeah, like this thing's interesting, I threw this thing into a, I threw this seed, this seed phrase, into a drawer and a year later I got another $25 thing for free and it's awesome. And you know, the only way to get it is if you have this thing and, like the, that conversation feels viral to me. That conversation feels, um, maybe like the least friction path towards a broader consumer adoption that I've been presented with and I get presented with a lot of consumer adoption ideas, like the idea that you have to, like, sign your life away to get a PO app because you have to download MetaMask and write down the seed phrase and be careful where you put the seed phrase and don't forget about the seed phrase and you know most people do anyways and then they lose their phone and so their stuff is gone and you do all that for something that's free or $15 or $20, I think is just completely backwards from like how normal people operate.
Erick Snowfro:So, yeah, that's what I'm working on in a way to bring visibility to, like the technology to our ecosystem, to the artists in our ecosystem, and then to artbox's like undying, um, you know, like passion for for this, this type of content yeah, wow.
NorCal Guy:Well, eric, I'm gonna have to end it there all right wow, thank you, and I just want to say I appreciate your time and spending this hour with me.
Erick Snowfro:Oh, oh my God, has it already been an hour.
NorCal Guy:Holy crap I hope we talk soon, man.
Erick Snowfro:Yeah, I hope to see you soon in Marfa.
NorCal Guy:Yeah, hopefully, hopefully soon Ask the wife. Yeah, all right, man.
Erick Snowfro:Bye Cool, thanks for having me.
NorCal Guy:Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal and chill podcast Show.
Erick Snowfro:It's chill time, norcal and chill podcast. What the what the Chill? Norcal and chill podcast. What the chill, what the chill? Your cow and chill podcast. So it's chill time, your cow and chill podcast. What the chill, what the chill.