NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
Exploring the Art and Technology Journey with Digital Artist Hayden Clay
Join us for an exciting conversation with the incredibly talented digital artist, Hayden Clay, as he shares his journey from a curious child to a full-time digital artist. Listen to Hayden's humorous tale of a memorable encounter with a cuttlefish and his deep appreciation for cultural diversity through food, especially curry. We'll explore the intersection of art and technology, discussing the transformative power of NFTs and how Hayden's experiences in biochemistry and software development have enriched his artistic journey.
Get ready to explore the world through a photographer's lens as we discuss Hayden's passion for photography and how it has revolutionized his view of the world. With a fondness for vibrant global cultures, Hayden talks about his dream of living in places like Hong Kong and California. As Hayden prepares for his upcoming trip to Japan, he shares his excitement about visiting camera shops and the challenges of capturing moments on the move, whether with professional equipment or a smartphone.
The excitement continues as we delve into Hayden's upcoming art show in Seoul, South Korea, set to open on March 29th. Discover the popularity of his suburban art pieces and the challenges collectors face in acquiring them. The conversation highlights our shared love for art and crypto, and wraps up with Hayden's eagerness to meet in New York and indulge in some homemade biscuits. Tune in for an inspiring chat that showcases the intersection of art, technology, and a vibrant community.
Who is this guy?
Speaker 2:Who is this guy?
Speaker 1:Who is this guy? Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy. Norcal guy, norcal and chill podcast. So it's chill time, norcal and chill podcast. What the fuck? What the chill NorCal and chill podcast. So it's chill time, norcal and Shill Podcast. What the sh what the sh NorCal and Shill Podcast. So it's Shill time, norcal. And.
Speaker 2:Shill Podcast. What the sh-, what the?
Speaker 1:sh hey everyone.
Speaker 2:Welcome to this episode of NorCal and Shill. Today we have an engaging episode with the incredibly talented Hayden Clay. The conversation gets personal as Hayden reflects on his journey from creative kid influenced by his dad to overcoming his reluctance to become a dedicated artist. He shared anecdotes from various jobs he held before going all in on his passion for art and recalled an amusing experience with a cuttlefish in an aquarium. We both geeked out over hardware wallets, nfts and our love for photography. In fact, hayden is looking forward to scoping out camera shops with his upcoming trip to Japan. He also shared his appreciation for the cultural diversity found in curry and shared the best advice he's received to embrace life's messiness. Thanks to Hayden for joining us, imparting his experiences and discussing the evolving recognition of digital art. Stick with us for more. Everybody, please. Welcome Hayden Clay. Hey, hayden, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great. Hello, norcal, how are you?
Speaker 2:Good, good, it's a good day. Tired, but you know good day, weekend is coming up and I'm really looking forward to this weekend, so can't complain.
Speaker 1:I love it. Yeah, it's an exciting time to be alive and in this space. But yeah, it's an exciting time to be alive and in the space. Everything is up. Spring is on the horizon. Nft Paris NFT New York.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's just lots of exciting things to come. Yeah, for sure, For sure. I know Paris does look nice. One day maybe I'll make it to that event, but the past two years have not been that day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd also love to go Feeling a little bit of FOMO. I would love to see you wage war on croissants with your biscuits. You know you could show them up.
Speaker 2:But there's always time for that. True, true, true.
Speaker 1:Oh man, so do you have a hardware wallet and use it? I do, um, I do the safe three address protocol. I have my main ledger that I meant from. I have another ledger that is a cool see-through ledger that I use as my vault, and I got the spicy hot wallet, metamask. But uh, yeah, I love, I love the ledger. I feel like I went a while, like when I first started in the space just having a metamask and, um, like I look back on that time with like a, like a cringe, and I feel like it was the wild west. So, yeah, I do have a ledger that's good.
Speaker 2:That's a good setup. That's uh, I forget what it's called like 6529. Put a name to that protocol, like he called it he calls it tap. Tap there, it is okay, tap there, it is okay, perfect. So what were your?
Speaker 1:first thoughts when you heard about crypto art and nfts, yeah, I was excited.
Speaker 1:Um, so my first exposure to it was people and rising and race, and both of these people are 3d artists and for me that was doubly exciting because I'm a 3D artist and so, like, let me give you the backdrop of sort of what was going on in my mind at the time.
Speaker 1:Like I'm making art and sort of like trying to find a way to make a living, and for me, like most of the way I would make money off of my own art was by selling prints, and I also wanted to make animations. But, like, whenever I would make an animation, I would have to render it for like 48 hours and I couldn't sell prints of it. So I kind of felt like, is this financially wise for me to do? Like I'm spending all this time and I can't really monetize it. So, right around these thoughts are going on. I see nfts starting to make a buzz and I'm like, holy shit, this seems like a perfect fit for my art and for animations. And, yeah, I was. I was very excited about it. Like to me it kind of seemed like there was a cultural shift happening and digital art was finally getting the value that it deserved.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, I mean I was talking to another artist kind of about this, but you know, like photography is still kind of shunned a little bit, but like video art is like the redheaded stepchild and they get like no respect. And he was like yeah, I mean like you can make limited edition dvd or like what's going on, like pre-nfts, and then you know you have digital scarcity now, and now you can do that with these formats that you weren't able to do before and create things that wasn't possible. It's pretty awesome I agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's both a change in, like the technology and the ways you're able to sell it, but also like the. I think equally important is the social value that we place on these things. I think that's essentially where value comes from. Anyway is like what is your, what's the social opinion of it? So, yeah, like photography, video and other digital artworks, finally, are perceived as actually having value right it's huge.
Speaker 2:So why did you choose art, or what brought you to art?
Speaker 1:I feel like there has been, um, an inescapable pool. I think that I don't want to say that I was destined to be an artist, but it kind of seems that way. As a kid I was very creative and imaginative and visual, and my dad is actually an artist. He's a watercolor painter and when I was first grade, the first time they ask you what do you want to be when you grow up, I would say artist. But at that point my parents are, like you can't be an artist. Like we know what it's like to be an artist, your dad is one and you can't do that. Like you have to be an engineer or a doctor or a lawyer. Like you know the the fancy jobs that make parents happy.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I, um, I like really enjoyed art as a hobby for for my entire youth. Like I was really into making things out of clay, sculpting little creatures and stuff. I was really into drawing and painting, but I never really had like a serious plan to be an artist professionally. It definitely was like fantasy. I mean, who doesn't want to be an artist? But I was on the path to be like an engineer or scientist and, yeah, it wasn't until I was 18 when I got into photography and I was like, dang, I think I might actually be able to make this work. I got really into it. It definitely shifted from being a hobby to something that I was putting a lot of time and passion into. Like I would say, my pursuits were were fun and silly beforehand, but with photography it got serious and at that point, like I was still on my path to be an engineer but I was spending like all of my free time on art, kind of just like hoping that somehow someday something would happen.
Speaker 2:And here we are, perfect. I love that. Well, what jobs have you done along the way? Those gritty jobs or first-time jobs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had a lot of jobs on this path and none of them artistic. So jobs on this path and none of them artistic, so right. I worked at, uh, the climbing wall at my university for a long time. I was really into climbing and that's like a very good job to have in college because I would like be going to the wall anyway. So why not get paid, right? Um, right, I was like an account payable, temp data entry, basically. Right after graduating college I was a CVS pharmacy tech and I finally got spit on my face in the very first day, like a sick lady came in and just spat on my face. So that was probably the grittiest job.
Speaker 1:And I was a TA a lot in college. I TA'd for organic chemistry, gen chem and plant science. I was a biochemistry student, so I was like TAing in all of the education fields. That was actually really fun. So my first serious, real job outside of college was as a software developer. I was an intern at a couple different places and then I moved to new york, um, to be a full-time software developer and that was my last job, because a couple of years ago I finally made the decision to quit that and do art full time. So that's a. It's the overview of my journey, nice.
Speaker 2:Wow, impressive. I like that. That's good. That's a good list. It's a good list. Um, I'm kind of impressed by the whole O chem and G chem and all those chems, cause I was terrible at those.
Speaker 1:Well, it's easier to be a TA than it is a student. There's no one testing you, um, but yeah, like it's, it's a struggle, um. But I think a part of why it was fun for me to be a ta is because I feel like they are really hard concepts and classes and like I viewed it as kind of like cool, like I will be the ta that I wish I had. Like I feel like my ta wasn't very helpful and like now I'm excited to kind of be like, uh, nice and friendly and and hopefully a good teacher to people like me a couple years ago.
Speaker 2:For sure. Well, that's awesome. So if you were an animal, what would you be?
Speaker 1:and why this is always such a tough question for me to answer, because I feel like, well, I have an answer, but I don't have a good reason for it. All right, I want to be a cuttlefish, and'm not saying I'm like like a cuttlefish, I just had a experience with one. So at the coney island aquarium in broken okay, there's just this cuttlefish in a tank and a couple years ago I went in there and this little guy just swims like right up to the edge and looks at me and I looked at him and we just held eye contact for like 10 minutes. It was very profound. I was like, wow, this is such an amazing creature. And I was equally amazed and also like laughing, because if you look at a cuttlefish, they're very silly looking. They kind of look like like an avocado wearing a tutu and that tutu is kind of like rippling and that's how it propulses through water and it's got like a Cthulhu face. So I was just like in awe of this creature in the way that it felt like it was kind of connecting with me, kind of connecting with me. Um, and years later uh, I think probably a year later I went there on a date and, um, I feel like the cuttlefish was jealous. Like I brought this lady to see the cuttlefish and it was like hiding, it wasn't coming out and uh, I'm definitely like crafting a narrative in in my head, like it was. It was probably just like the sleeping or something, but in my mind I'm like this this is the case. It was jealous. This cuttlefish had a profound connection with me and is now jealous. So, um, they're really cool creatures.
Speaker 1:Um, and right next to that cuttlefish is a tank of smaller, more colorful cuttlefish. They're called flamboyant cuttlefish is a tank of smaller, more colorful cuttlefish. They're called flamboyant cuttlefish and they look like, if you just imagine, like a purple orchid. They look exactly like that. It's crazy. And they're very comical, like they walk along the seafloor with their little face tentacles. It's like a cartoon character and they also can change their colors, kind of like chameleons. They're fascinating. So I feel like they're underappreciated creatures. Because of this experience with the cuttlefish, I would love to join their aquatic society.
Speaker 2:That's a good one. I mean, as a person who picks the octopus, I have a great appreciation for the cuttlefish and, yeah, they're a cool creature. I mean, they're very similar to an octopus, they just swim.
Speaker 1:They're extremely, extremely similar. I feel like it's like an octopus, just kind of packaged into a different shape. I love them. What makes you choose an octopus out of curiosity into a different shape?
Speaker 2:I love them. What makes you choose octopus? Out of curiosity, oh uh, I mean partly because I mean they're intelligent. They can hide and like, be like disguised and just like nah, I'm just gonna do my own thing, don't want to be seen right now, and then they'll. But there also can be like social, at least with humans. It does seem like they'll come and play and do whatever. I always wanted one as a pet because I had a saltwater tank for a couple years, but I never got around to setting one up specifically for an octopus because that's a lot of work, but yeah they're fascinating.
Speaker 1:They're so cool and the way that they can squeeze through the smallest of gaps. I feel like they just have a laundry list of exciting facts about them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's true. It's true, they're amazing. So do you have a favorite food?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's curry. That's an umbrella. Like. I love all kinds of curries. I specifically like katsu curry, like it's a Japanese dish which has Japanese curry and chicken katsu on the side. I love that. It's so good. But I'm also a big fan of Indian curry. So that's definitely a safe answer for me, because I feel like in the pool of curry there's like many different cuisines to swim to. I love it.
Speaker 2:It's true, it's true, there are a lot. I mean, think about it. I mean, like there's Thai curries, you get the yellow or green or red. I mean, yeah, you go curry and then you're just like you're set for life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm a big time getter of curry. I get it a lot when I go to places and I feel like there's always like a new curry that I've never seen before. It's wild, a rainbow of colors green, red, yellow, brown. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:It's true, it's true. So what's the best piece of advice you've been given, or like a mantra that you can like, come back to? That's in your head.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I definitely received a lot of advice and I think the way to know if something really impacts you is, like how often you think about it. And I think for me I was told life is supposed to be messy, like it's. It's supposed to be messy and it's pretty generic, but for me, that comforted me a lot because, like you can fuck up in a lot of different ways in in life.
Speaker 1:In small ways, like you can say something you didn't mean to say like uh, in big ways, you can, like you know, take a job you shouldn't have or done something you shouldn't have, and I think like it's helpful to understand that like making a mistake and fucking up isn't something that like is, is is a bad event. It's it's like the default, like you should expect it and it's okay, it's supposed to happen, and like these mistakes are kind of funny, like they. They're kind of what makes life interesting. I kind of like the spice of life, yeah, and if you didn't have them to be kind of boring. As someone who's kind of like a perfectionist and tries to optimize a lot of areas of my life, I find it very helpful to kind of just be like chill out, it's cool, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2:That's fair. I like that actually. I mean because then you're not stressing about why it's not perfect. Do you have advice for artists coming to this crypto art space?
Speaker 1:yes, um, I think the big, the big advice is definitely don't quit your day job. Uh, I think this is a space that is super volatile and like a small percentage of artists will make any amount of significant income, especially enough to live off of. But I think like the most important piece of advice for artists in general is just to like diversify and to every possible way you can like. For me, and I assume many other artists that are making a living is like I have many different income streams and that way I'm not like stressed if I have a couple months without sales because I have like the option of freelance, I have print sales, I have licensing, I have these residuals paying for many different income streams.
Speaker 1:And I think if you are pressured to make money off of NFTs because that's your only income stream, that's going to be very stressful and you're probably going to come across as very annoying because you're going to have to essentially like beg, like it's your, it's your livelihood and you're going to be having to mint more often than you may want to. You may be minting like work. That isn't your best. I think it it leads you to doing things that you probably shouldn't do. I think it's good to be selective and I think it's way healthier to not rely on, like this absolute wild west of a new digital economy. You know, right, right.
Speaker 2:For sure. So if you could live or move anywhere, where would you live and why?
Speaker 1:That's a tough one. Where would you live? And why that's a tough one. I'm someone who I kind of have a fantasy of like living, uh, for a brief period of time, and like every place like okay, yeah, yeah but I definitely have a few places that come to mind.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm someone that loves like water and warm weather, so somewhere tropical, very cool. I lived in hong kong for six months and I love it there. Like, I do think about moving back pretty often. It's probably my favorite place in the world, but I there's just so much of the world I haven't seen like I. I've literally only been to san diego. That's the only part of california I've ever been to and it's only visit anywhere in california. People are like, oh, you should go check out this spot and it's like a seven hour drive away. Like I'm here for two days. I don't think I can do that. So, um, as someone who's only scratched the surface of california, like I unlocked kind of like I unlocked 20 more trips, 20 more towns and cities I'd like to see, I'd love to live in California at some point. Everyone describes it as paradise. I'm sure you have some strong opinions, mr Norgal, I think. In summary, I just want to live in a whole bunch of different places, but Hong Kong has a special place in my heart.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean, the good thing is is you can live in a lot of places and still get curry, that's very true, and yeah Well, the Hong Kong especially is kind of like a global melting pot, so it's a good spot to have all the curry come to you.
Speaker 2:So do you have any questions for me?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I've been seeing like a little some snippets of you getting into photography. I've seen like a couple of posts of you kind of hanging out with Ruben Wu and taking pictures. Oh, yeah, yeah. I would just love to kind of like get more info on this, like how is your photographic journey coming along? I mean, what inspires you, are you? Do you see yourself as like a travel photographer mainly, or like just how's it going?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, it's good. It's good, I guess, um. Yeah, no, it's good, it's good, I, I guess, um I.
Speaker 2:I take a lot of pictures of my family when I'm at home, so I don't share those um and when I, you know, and at home I am, at home I'm not like going out doing things, so it's mainly like photos of people, my kids, um. But when I I do get to travel and do something, then I I don't. I enjoy going out and just taking pictures, like just walking around by myself and just, oh, that looks interesting, take a picture type thing. Generally, it's more, if it's interesting to me, then I'll snap a shot and that could be, and I don't know if I have like a favorite subject matter that I, you know, have, I'm just interested in whatever looks interesting to me. I guess, which is kind of weird to say, because I feel like some people are like, oh, I do street photography, I do landscape photography, and I'm like, oh, I'll just try whatever and just Take pictures of what looks cool to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think both Ruben and I would agree with that whole boxing yourself into a specific genre of photography. It's not always easy and I didn't really have a good way to describe my style either, but it's just such a fun medium to get into. I'm curious do you feel like it changed the way that you view the world getting into photography?
Speaker 2:I mean, sometimes I'll be driving along and I'll be like I should stop and take that picture. You see something and you're like, oh, that would be a pretty cool picture. But do I really want to turn around right now, or am I late right now? So yeah, I definitely notice things and like, okay, that would be kind of cool. Or like, dang it, I don't have my camera on me right now. How do I not have a camera? I'm always carrying a camera on me, but I guess technically I am. I have my iPhone, but I'm like, ah, screw that thing.
Speaker 1:Totally get you. I've had so many nightmares where I'm like in an exciting place and I don't have my camera and it's just funny how like I've unlocked a new, a new fear or like a new nightmare by getting into this medium, like like right now planning a trip to Japan, and I've already had two nightmares where I get there and my camera's broken or I'm out of film or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's reasonable, because if you don't have your camera or if it breaks unless you have a backup of some sort, then you're you have to either like buy a new one on the spot, like that's your only option yeah, and I was thinking about that and I was like you know what, it might even be kind of fun to like have to wander into some cool like local japanese photoshop, um, and like most of the cameras are japanese anyway, like nikon and canon, true, all that stuff. So it couldn't be in the world. But yeah, definitely doesn't happen. Sweet, do you have?
Speaker 2:any other questions?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, I definitely was. It's. It's funny. I was planning on asking you about the future of the create and then, just like an hour ago, like this, this bombshell drops. So I feel like that was my, my answer there, but that's very exciting. Um, I'm excited to see, like, how that unfolds and I'm excited to go shopping myself.
Speaker 2:Sweet, yeah, no, sweet, yeah, no, um. And we also got season two launching soon, um, for the beginning of, so I guess next week we'll probably be uh, pounding the streets with that that news as well, for season two starting in march. But yeah, no, it's going great, man. Um, this burn PFPs and get art was a fun thing to kind of put together. No one has done it and we had to get a custom contract made so we could actually do it. So, yeah, it's been fun, been interesting and I think it's going to be successful. I guess you know it doesn't cost you anything. You just have to get rid of some PFPs that you hate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely think it's going to be successful as well. I also wouldn't be surprised if, like, this paradigm of burning PFPs for for something else kind of catches on, because I almost constantly see like um sort of like down bad posts of people being like bought this for a fuck done. Now it's worth nothing, like I can't believe I spent this on this bored lion dog, like. I feel like there's a lot of people unhappy with their and it seems like a good way to kind of like revive them into something else.
Speaker 2:That's true. That's true. Yeah, this is a good way to like get rid of those and it's yeah, no, it's gonna be fun. Well, do you have any projects that you'd like to talk about? Upcoming past, future anything?
Speaker 1:yes, yes. So lots of extending stuff going on right now. Um, the current project I'm working on, the suburbs just finished the end artwork for that. Um, oh, only six of those have been minted, so you can be on the lookout for news or the other four. I feel like the series kind of keeps getting better and better. That's just up to me. Outside the space, I have a art show in Seoul, in Korea, on March 29th. That's opening and it's going to be open for six months, so I will be there for the opening day. I'm really excited about that. Um, I think, if there's any, any chance you're near south korea, it's, it's worth checking out. Um, and artworks from the suburbs will be on display there. So very cool, but I'll be working on that. And yeah, I think that's the two big headlines in my life right now nice.
Speaker 2:Well, that's awesome. I mean, I've enjoyed the past suburbs that you've made. I don't own all of them, unfortunately, because some diamond handers are being jerks like I would be. But yeah, I want to say thank you, hayden, for coming on the show and spending some time with me and letting us all get to know a little bit about you.
Speaker 1:Yes, likewise, it's always a pleasure chatting with you a little bit about you. Yes, likewise, it's always a pleasure chatting with you. It's great to chat art, crypto, the space and everything in between. Cannot wait to finally try your biscuits and hopefully see you in New York For sure. Yeah, it's been a pleasure, deb.
Speaker 2:Yeah, son, it's been great. Sweet man, well, well, I'll see you soon and you have a good day. Thank you, you too. Who is this guy? Who is this?
Speaker 1:guy. Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Norcal and chill.