NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
Capturing Life Through a New Lens
What happens when life's unexpected twists lead you down an entirely new creative path? In this captivating conversation with photographer Billy Dinh, we explore how a stolen camera became the catalyst for abandoning his successful illustration career and embracing photography—eventually leading him into the world of NFTs and Web3.
Billy shares the fascinating story of his artistic evolution, from doodling as a child to freelancing for Marvel Comics, before finding his true calling behind the lens. After discovering NFTs through Instagram in March 2021, he initially approached the space as a collector before realizing the potential for authenticating and selling his own photographic work. Unlike many NFT origin stories that focus solely on financial gains, Billy was drawn by the technology's ability to provide verifiable attribution—addressing a longstanding concern for creators whose work is frequently appropriated without permission or compensation.
What makes Billy's perspective particularly valuable is his balanced approach to creative entrepreneurship. While maintaining a successful career as a product manager in the tech industry, he's built a significant presence as a photographer in the NFT space. Drawing wisdom from Elizabeth Gilbert's book "Big Magic," Billy challenges the notion that legitimacy as an artist requires abandoning financial stability. This refreshing viewpoint offers encouragement to creators feeling pressured to "go all in" before they're ready.
For artists navigating or considering entry into NFTs, Billy offers three essential pieces of advice: don't make digital assets your entire identity or financial strategy; practice patience as finding your audience may take time; and be prepared to develop promotion and community-building skills alongside your creative practice. His journey illustrates how Web3 empowers artists by removing traditional gatekeepers while simultaneously requiring them to take on new responsibilities.
Ready to gain insights from someone who's successfully balancing creative passion with practical stability? Listen now and discover why sometimes the best artistic journeys don't follow a straight line.
Who is this? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this? Who is this guy? Who is this guy?
Speaker 2:Who is this guy? Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal and chill podcast Show.
Speaker 1:It's chill time, norcal, and chill podcast. What the sh-, what the sh-, norcal and Shill Podcast.
Speaker 1:So it's shill time, NorCal and Shill Podcast what the sh-. What the sh-. Hey everyone, welcome to the next episode of NorCal and Shill. Today's guest is Billy Deen. You can find him on Twitter at Billy Deen. It is spelled B-I-L-L-Y-D-E-E-E, underscore. His website is BillyDNcom, which is spelled B-I-L-L-Y-D-I-N-Hcom. His Instagram is at Billy D, which is spelled B-I-L-L-Y-D-E-E-E, and his link tree is Billy D, which is also spelled B-I-L-L-Y-D-E-E-E. His clients include Microsoft Xbox, and he's been published in Street Dreams Magazine, f-stoppers, expert Photography and CNN News. Everyone, please welcome, billy. Hey, billy, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Hey man, Thanks for having me. I'm doing very well, Just trying to go through another day of the cold brisk weather of New York.
Speaker 1:Oof that. Yeah, that's a little too cold for me over there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're not even at the coldest month yet, so I think January February is going to be usually like the cold months over here, but I don't know what it is. This December has been just like outrageously cold, so I think we're going to have to buckle up for an interesting winter this year.
Speaker 1:A super cold winter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, super cold winter.
Speaker 1:Oh man. So what are you doing for lunch that's going to keep you warm?
Speaker 2:Honestly, dude. I just have my cup of tea and that's it. I don't drink coffee, so like tea is the only thing that keeps me warm. Otherwise I just cook up a hot meal, Nothing fancy. Yeah, I'm more of a. You know, I'll go out to dinner, have a nice dinner and then just eat like I'll cook like whatever for lunch or breakfast perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel you on that one. So do you have a hardware wallet?
Speaker 2:yes, I do have a hardware wallet. I do have the ledger, I think the nano x, right, not the cheapest one. I remember when my friends were like my you know, my friends in the space were like, get a wallet. I'm I'm like, well, which one? And they're like get the Ledger. And I'm like, okay, cool, which one? And they're like whatever's not the cheapest one. So I think I got the. I'm not sure if that's the Nano. Is that the Nano X one, the one that's like has, like, the screen on it?
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, the ledger X, maybe that's. Maybe that's what I have. Yeah, it's also interesting that this is your first question. Well, yeah, I mean, I just it is. I think a lot of people avoid it because I mean it's priced in dollars and it looks. You're like dang it, I don't want to spend that kind of money. And then, but you're gonna throw down like 0.1 ETH on something and you're like you guys gotta buy some wallets.
Speaker 2:I know you do. You know what it is, though it's like. I've heard and seen too many horror stories from like people. I know you know that I don't even want to go through it. I think you guys can imagine it's just, it's sad and it's all your hard work. You know that's, you know, could be gone in an instant. So I don't, I don't want to mess around, but I like this as the first question because it kind of like makes you either feel bad or feel good. The rest of the interview.
Speaker 1:It's exactly what I'm going for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you get a lot of people to say no, that they don't have a hard wallet?
Speaker 1:I had a couple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's nothing to feel bad about. It's like you know, it's like I think everybody should have one personally.
Speaker 1:It's a process.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is.
Speaker 1:It is. I mean, I definitely feel like platforms should be like hey, before you start an account here or mint something here, get a wallet and mint from your wallet.
Speaker 2:Oh, I agree. I think, like SuperRare and like OpenSea and Foundation, you know how, like when you submit and sell your first piece, like Foundation gives you invites and stuff, I think they should also send you a wallet. It's like, look, you're official. Like welcome to the space. Like here's your what is it? Your starter kit, you know, like here's yeah, there's your three invites. Here's a hard wallet, here's a baseball cap with our logo. That'd be cool. That's a good idea for, uh, anybody who wants to, who's listening, who wants to start a new platform yeah, I mean it's, it's promo, let's do it.
Speaker 1:What were your first thoughts when you heard about NFTs?
Speaker 2:That's interesting. So I'm trying to remember my first exact thoughts. I remember hearing about NFTs. So I came from, like most artists, I came from the Instagram world where I kind of just like basically lived right At one point. I just posted everything there and had everything there and promoted my work there and you know that's where business came in from and all that. You know where I met friends People like to talk bad about Instagram, but that's where it was for a little while and that's where I saw NFTs.
Speaker 2:I didn't see one specifically, but I did remember going through one of my artist friends like stories and I noticed they were like this is back in march, by the way, and they were like, oh my gosh, and it teases like the future. You're not like looking into it, you're gonna hear about it anyway, things like that. And I'm just like yeah, and I'm just like, whoa, this is like I gotta check this out, because I actually I work in text. You know I'm always trying to know, be on top of what's latest, especially when it comes to tech and crypto and all that. Right. So that was my first time I heard about it was on an Instagram story.
Speaker 1:And were you a believer? Did you like? Let me research this scam.
Speaker 2:I did, yeah, I did. I like went to Google, I typed in NFTs and I read a bunch of articles and I was like a couple days have passed and I was like I still don't get it. I was like what is going on? And then I kept reading and I kept reading and one of the things that I think really got me, it wasn't minting my work and selling it, it was authenticating my work, and I think that was like the big draw. At that point I was like cool, you know, I do a bunch of work and I've always had, you know not that anything's happened to me like that, but I've always had a fear of people just kind of like taking your work and just like not just selling it but claiming it as their own. You know, you hear all these horror stories of like even big corporations doing it, urban outfitters, right, like taking people's work and like putting it on a t-shirt and selling it without permission or royalty or anything, so that kind of sucks, right. And so that was my big ticket in and I was like you know what? You know, I've never sold my work. I don't do my work with the intention of selling it, at least not before, and so I wasn't really in a big rush to sell it. I was just thinking, thinking like, who would buy it anyway? And so I was like, but how about I use this technology, you know, on the blockchain to authenticate it? And so that was when I kind of like started to look into the technology.
Speaker 2:I was researching platforms, and it wasn't maybe until I found out about Nifty Gateway and I found out that, like people were making money off NFTs that I kind of started to like get involved.
Speaker 2:So, believe it or not, my first interactions with NFTs was not even as an artist, more so, like you know, as a collector, almost, because I had already invested in Ethereum and a bunch of other small coins. I didn't have much, but, you know, I was putting stuff aside, and so I was like, you know what, let me put some stuff in art Like people are making a bunch of money off of, like you know, mad dog jones. I love his work, right and ferocious. You know, I saw his work back then too early and, uh, all the other people that were already kind of established on nifty in the march time frame, and I was like, let me just like try to get an addition for as low as I can, and uh, that's how I got it nice started as a collector I know, right for the record, I never ended up getting a mad dog jones, or for which is I wish I did.
Speaker 2:I tried to right even back, then they were hard, you know, but yeah, but you know the funny thing when, at that same time as I was collecting, I started to go all right, look, I'm an artist, right, I have work, let me just throw something out there. But when I was researching, I came across justin avazana. How do you pronounce his last name? I'm so terrible with names.
Speaker 2:Uh, avazana yes I think that's right, avazana. Yeah, so justin's collection of twin flames on open sea and I remember like I was like super proud to come across it because it was photography and you know, and everything on nifty was like beautiful and like 3d and virtual and moving right and it was just like a different type of art. And so I was like man, these photographs I don't know if they're gonna ever do well, but I came across justin's and I was like man, this is a photography series that's like really well curated and there's a great story behind it. They're well shot, it looks very museum slash gallery quality and I just watched it sell out. I literally watched it sell out. It was like I think 0.55 and I was like, yeah, 0.55 was a lot for me, especially at that time, you know, and I was like, no, I'm not gonna buy this. And you know, look at it now, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean it's funny because when I first started buying as well, I was reserved because you know like that's a lot, but like, uh, I'm gonna like because I remember like buying some of my stuff like well I saw I remember when ringers came out or not.
Speaker 1:I wasn't there for when ringers came out, but afterwards, on secondary, and the prices started to go up and I was like, oh, I really want one of these, but they're starting to go up in price. I don't know. Is it going to be worth it? I don't know. I finally bought one at like one and a half ETH and I was just like is this a bad move?
Speaker 2:Wait, is it bad now? Is it okay?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good it's good, okay, good see, that's the thing you don't know. You don't know, there's been many times where I've done the same thing and like I saw like the toads go by at like 0.7, I was like there's no way, this is gonna, nothing's gonna ever happen with this, you know. And then it was not like 15th and I was like fuck, and there's a bunch of things. And then there's a bunch of things like I think we were just talking earlier about, like the, the meccas and all those things where I'm like you know what I could go in right now and probably make a big or just like have the biggest regret in my life. You know, but you never know.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 2:I mean, I guess I could see why some people wait to see if there's momentum behind it before jumping in like buy on secondary I blame justin's piece, though, for just being like just so inexperienced and not like yet a believer of this whole thing, you know, and that that was my like big thing, right, yeah, so that was why I don't think I jumped in on that one yeah, I mean it's interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean there wasn't hardly any. There wasn't much photography back then, if any, trying to think no, no, no, no, I do know that there were.
Speaker 2:I mean, I found out later that there are other photographers that have minted stuff that just didn't, I guess wasn't as big in the light as justin's collection. I think his was like probably the first photography collection. I think that was why it did as well. I don't think that's the only reason, obviously, but there's like that was the reason why I think I've even heard of it, because it was a collection and the pieces all were cohesive and they kind of belong in a big set. And I think there were other photographers out there that maybe have done solo stuff, but I'm sure there were definitely other photography work floating around at that point yeah I know there's other photography work because I like nathan head, I think it is.
Speaker 1:I bought some of his stuff early on, but just Justin's was like the first collection, I think, and he really got involved in the community. I mean, he did like it was before, he did that Save Art Space, I think and got the punks on the billboards and bus stations, bus stops and whatnot. I think that helped. Getting involved in the community definitely helped.
Speaker 2:Oh, totally, oh yeah. I think that helped. Getting involved in community definitely helped. Oh, totally, oh yeah. And I love what he's involved in with the quantum curation service or platform whatever you want to refer to it and there's a few other things he's doing too that I think, personally, is going to be big for the photography space introduce new artists that wouldn't have either heard of or been a part of this space, or just even bring more success or bring the success that's deserved to some artists that are already in the space. So I think what they're doing is great over there.
Speaker 1:So switching gears a little bit back to yourself. How or what brought you into art, photography in general, how did you get started?
Speaker 2:Sure. So I think my path is a little bit interesting. So I've always been interested in creating things, I think ever since I was very young. I remember clearly a moment in my life when I was like I don't know the age exactly, but I could have been like four or five or six where I literally was sitting down with my mother in our old apartment in Philadelphia and I was sketching out I don't know doodles or something random, whatever kids draw. I remember, like being so proud of this piece of work, you know, and the only thing I can remember my mother saying was like you know, you, this is great, but you can't focus on this. You have to focus on school and become like a doctor or something, or an engineer, and so I don't know, but for whatever reason that kind of, I've always been artistic.
Speaker 2:I've always continued to draw, even past those early ages, even into, like high school and college. I can still continue to like illustrate and paint and did a bunch of things. I'm not so much photography, though, but I was always involved in the arts and I remember even getting like my art teachers to go. Like you know, we really recommend you try to apply for an art program because we think that you're great. But I never had the confidence right because I think my whole life I grew up, you know, not thinking I was good enough and coming from parents that are super immigrants, asian American parents who just wants to succeed and they think success comes from, you know, having a job like a lawyer or doctor, you know, things like that kind of discouraged me. So I continue to do it and but I never really took it seriously. And then I think I started to find that you could kind of make money off art. When I was in college and I was doing like illustrations, like comic book illustrations, and I remember posting it on a forum and it started. The people started, it started selling, people started commissioning me to do small stuff and yeah, but I continued to go get a degree in something completely different, you know, and I had been working a nine to five in a completely different job, right, but I kept art like near and dear to my heart and even after these nine to five jobs, in any time that I had left, I would pour it all into art. You know I would juggle like the social life and work and you know my relationships, and then art would have a big place there. So you know, long story short, I'm telling you all this because I accidentally kind of got into photography because of my illustration stuff. So I had already been traveling for quite a bit of time and I took photos on my phone like anybody else would, but I never thought anything of it. It was just like just taking in the moment, and remembering this beautiful scenery was why I took photos on my phone.
Speaker 2:And then one year, I think about four years ago, I had somebody break into my apartment here in Brooklyn. They basically like they took all of my stuff, all of my important stuff, and they took the camera I had, which was like a Rebel TI, just a basic camera, something that I barely ever touched, and I remember I did use it. Whenever I did use it, I used it to take pictures of like still figures, like references, so I could, like you know, references, so I could, like you know, so I can use as reference to paint or draw. And I think when that was stolen, my laptop was stolen, I was in the market to get new stuff and at that same time, I think, I luckily had a co-worker who was super into photography and he helped, kind of. You know, he convinced me to pick up a fancier camera, right? So instead of like the rebel, which was like an ASPC crop camera for beginners, he was like you know what you can get like a used 6D, a Canon 6D which is like an entry-level full frame, and so I was like I don't even know what you're talking about, but if it's the same price and it's a better camera, sure yeah. So I picked it up and I took it with me to Iceland because I was like you know what? I have this nice camera and I'm going to this beautiful place and I know my iPhone is not going to take the best photos, so let me take this camera here.
Speaker 2:And I swear to you, ever since that Iceland trip, I stopped all my other artistic endeavors. I stopped painting, I stopped illustrating, and it's been oh, wow, yeah, I know it's been photos every single day. I guess what it was was I took photos and I got posted it and right away people were like, well, these are great. And then I started off with landscape stuff and then I moved over. I naturally kind of grew a love for street photography, which is like people and like just things around the street, you know, and living in New York, that came easy. But yeah, I you know sorry for that long winded answer, but I wanted to kind of give you the background as to how it all came together and how I got where I got to.
Speaker 1:Wow, I'm still surprised you dropped illustration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have so many people Cause like I even freelance for Marvel, I did some stuff for them and I had, like other small independent comic book companies kind of reach out like image. I don't know if you guys are big in the comic book world, so like I was like building a name there too. It's just there were sides about that that I didn't like and wasn't fulfilling. That I do get with photography, and so you know, and also my whole life prior to that, I kind of like stretched myself out thin doing so many different things and for once I really wanted to focus and put my all into something, and literally that's what I've been doing over the last like four years since I've started photography, and I had to make that sacrifice. But for me, my belief is I don't think anything is permanent. I think if one day I realize that I want to put down the camera and pick my brushes or my pen and pencils back up, then I think I can do so. So, but for now, this is my life.
Speaker 1:So I'm curious what kind of jobs have you done along the way?
Speaker 2:You want like non-art jobs or just like everything.
Speaker 1:Well, let's hear some, because I mean there was I'm assuming. I might be assuming wrong, but before you started doing the sketching and the illustrating, I feel like there was some jobs in there that probably weren't art related.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were. So I like part-time like as soon as I could even work. I had a job in Models Sporting Goods they, I think they're out of business now, but they're like a sporting goods company and I worked in like the footwear to shoe department. So I sewed sneakers for a little bit for like a couple of years, like through high school, you know, just to get by and know the value of working. So I did that and then, believe it or not, I worked at Best Buy for like a good two to three years, two part-time, when I was in college.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like a geek squad or computer, like sales, so I did a bunch of that. And then I went to school, got a degree in computer science and I became a product manager. Actually, I started off as a business analyst and became a product manager and that's kind of what I do now, still like full time. So I know surprising because a lot of people are like you know I thought you were a photographer full time and honestly I feel like I am because I put so much into it. But I haven't gotten to the point where you know I'm brave enough or I'm financially secure enough to kind of quit my job, like most people are, but I think I don't want to jinx anything, but it's looking a lot better as days go on. That's all I'll say.
Speaker 1:When you're ready, the time will be there.
Speaker 1:I encourage people to keep their job at least through one down cycle keep their job at least through one down cycle, just because I don't know what this next potential down cycle is going to be like. Until the next cycle of bull run It'll be. It may not pull back that much, it may not, and if it doesn't, then awesome, you can quit your job at that point if you feel like you can. Otherwise just grind through. It means a couple more years. That's not that bad in the grand scheme of things totally agree.
Speaker 2:And also just there's like this uh, I think I was kind of on this side for a little while, but there's also like this book that really helped me and I highly recommend it for anybody who's like a creative and caught in that battle of like working and also doing art, because I think for the longest time I was like a little ashamed that I was like an artist doing art, producing art, but not really putting my all, even though I am I'm not, like you know, dedicating my entire life and quitting my job, and so I kind of felt, like you know, like a fraud. But I've come to kind of accept that like everybody's got their own story and their own journey and they do it at their own pace. And and just because you're putting in eight hours somewhere else doesn't mean a day, doesn't mean that, like you know, you still can't be an artist right, you still can't put out work and still do great things and produce great art. And so this book I read recently, a couple of years ago, but it really helped me with that journey and I highly recommend it. It's called Big Magic.
Speaker 2:It's by Elizabeth Gilbert. She is the famous author who wrote eat, pray, love. Or eat, love, pray or forget what the title, the real title of the book is. But she wrote a book kind of about her life and how she, kind of like. Even though she wrote that book, which became a movie, she still had a full-time job right, and she was like number one on the new york bestseller for you know that book and won many awards. She still kept her job for years after. Her journey is really great, you know, and I would highly recommend it for anybody either in my position or just considering picking up a job as an artist too.
Speaker 1:So yeah, what was her name again?
Speaker 2:Elizabeth Gilbert, gilbert, yeah, and it's called Big Magic.
Speaker 1:All right. Next question If you were an animal, what would you be and why?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I don't know't know, man, I get asked this sometimes and I honestly don't even know why. How does this come up? I would like to think I'm like a tiger or something, but I'm definitely not. So I mean, like you know, everybody wants to be like this cool animal. You know, if you're like in harry potter, if you want to be like a petronas, you want to be like this mighty awesome thing. But I would say, maybe a bear, because I like to sleep, and maybe, like you know, I'm kind of like I can have my sides. You know, I'm a little like I could be nice and gentle when I need to be, but I could also be pretty scary if I need to be.
Speaker 1:So, yes, that's what I can do all right, but I mean it's time to hibernate now. I know man.
Speaker 2:Especially here in the wintertime. I just want to sleep like all day.
Speaker 1:I know, if it's cold out, a nice cozy blanket.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why shooting in the rain has been so difficult recently, because like I'm like, all right, I've got a bunch of rainy shots. Now I'm going to like sleep in and like enjoy like the mood and the kind of like the sound it makes when it hits the window, like that's so peaceful. Do you have a?
Speaker 2:favorite food I, I have many. I'm a big fan of food as well. I think if I had to choose one I mean, you can't go wrong with like mexican food or any type of like latin food. I love like all of that. I love asian food too. But if I had to pick one, I'd probably say like the burrito, it's got like everything in it. Like you can have your rice, you know you can have your protein, you can have some veggies, you know you got your carbs, and it's just. You can do it up any different way, put anything in it, just and you know, and it's like it fits in your hand. This is great. It's a great food, man.
Speaker 1:Like it's great it's kind of like an all-around. It's not too messy, like if you're on a road trip, you can eat a burrito easily oh yeah, and it's like always filling.
Speaker 2:I don't think I've ever gone to a place who like I'm not full after like a burrito, you know any uh particular type of meat depends. So, like my healthier months, I'll just stick to chicken, but like I love al pastor okay yeah, like the pork, the, you know the marinated pork with the pineapple. I don't really like the carne a lot on a burrito. I do like beef. I just don't like the carne a lot on a burrito. I usually stick to the chicken and the pork.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess when I'm ordering a burrito I usually go some sort of chicken.
Speaker 2:You usually order chicken.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then tacos is where I I'd switch over to like carne asada, yeah same.
Speaker 2:With the taco I'll get carne or like. I know it's not traditional, but like fish tacos are so good. Oh yeah, fish tacos are good yeah, and you're in cali right, so you get like the real good tacos man yeah, you can definitely find some really good spots in like every town there's a good spot yeah, I remember being like in san diego my first time and I went to like a truck and it was like, first off, it was extremely cheap.
Speaker 2:I think it was like three bucks a taco or 250 or something like you know, because I think there's so much competition there, right and it was just like the size of like my 13 inch macbook pro. It wasn't that big but it was like huge. It was like huge for a taco and it was delicious and it's a must. Anytime I go back to the West Coast, I always hit up like those. You know, I always Google or Yelp all of the taco spots or burrito spots.
Speaker 1:Right For sure. What is the best piece of advice you've been given?
Speaker 2:Ah geez. So I've been given quite a bit and I think the one that I think will always stick out to me which, funny enough, isn't from like a teacher or any like guru or sensei or master mentor, it's actually from a girl I met in a hostel. She gave me some really good advice, I think. So I was in South Africa, I was in Johannesburg, I was just like in a hostel and, for those who don't know me, I love when I travel, I love staying in these hostels because, like you get to just meet like so many amazing people and you get to kind of like um and it's, you know, it's a little more affordable, so I get to do more trips, it's more so about the community and the relationships that you build, and so I love staying in these hostels. And I met this girl from Australia and you know we're in Johannesburg and I don't know it was like over, like drinks or something, and she gives me this advice and my like, my mind is blown and she just basically like she says something around the lines of how she doesn't like to worry about something that hasn't happened yet, because then you worry twice and I think what I was doing was I was just like complaining about something or worrying about something, or like asking her why she didn't, she's not worried. And she was like, well, why worry when you know you're to have to worry about it anyway? But when it happens, but because it hasn't happened yet, like it's just a waste of like your stress or your emotions, which, like I love this advice because, like I get what she's trying to say, like she's not trying to say, don't worry at all.
Speaker 2:There's a little bit of like you know, worrying or feeling that you need to kind of act on something that prepares you right and gets you to do something. It kind of motivates people at sometimes there's a level of worrying that you're. Just, you know, some people are like, sometimes myself especially where I'm like already stressed as if that had already happened Do you know what I mean? And it's like it hasn't happened and so when it does happen you're going to worry all over again or you know it's just going to be more prolonged. And I think I've taken that advice and I've applied it to like some of my day to day things, and it can be applied to anything and it's kind of helped me through with certain things. But I think the key is kind of having to know when to worry, when not to worry. I think that's my advice right Having to know. You know when something's worth worrying for prematurely or early, versus kind of when things you need to relax a little bit and just let it go and then worry when it's occurring.
Speaker 1:I mean it makes sense. I mean you know there's no need to like stress about something that may not happen. Also like, oh crap, if I don't do this, you're like well, you know, when you get to that point, it might not even be like that.
Speaker 2:It's it. You're like well, you know, when you get to that point it might not even be like that. A completely different situation, exactly, yeah, and I think it could be situational though, because, like some things for example, like doing your homework it's like you want to worry because you know you might procrastinate and not do it right. So those there's certain things where you might want to worry a little early, but there's certain things that are just out of your control. So why are you worrying? You know, like you might not have any say or any type of input, or you know, no matter whether you worry or doing anything about it, it's not going to go that way anyway. So why not just worry when it comes? You know, and I think if you can differentiate between that and know when to not worry early or not to, I think you'd live a little a life that's a little less stress, you know, or more stress-free.
Speaker 1:So Do you have any specific advice for artists joining the NFT space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually I do. And it's funny because out in Miami I was at the Super Rare booth and I had like a few of the staff like Casey and kind of like I don't know why, but they were like I, the staff like Casey and kind of like I don't know why, but they were like I was there just hanging out, talking to them and seeing them, and they had a photography come over who were like new to the NFT world, and they just kind of were like you know, threw me on the spot and was like do you have any advice for this person? And you know, I was with my friend Natalie and we both kind of like had to think on the fly because we weren't ready to answer these questions. But I remember saying something that I was like super, like I would definitely want to share this with everybody else and that is like don't make this your everything, Because I see so many people that come in and they kind of put so much and they rely so much on this that it gets emotionally and mentally straining, like I don't make it my everything.
Speaker 2:And I still go through days where I'm, like, you know, super like stressed, don't make it my everything, and I still go through days where I'm, like you know, super, like stressed and like feeling it. You know, feeling the fomo and all that other stuff, and I try not to I'm always big on not giving into that but it you just can't help it. Sometimes I think it's in our neighbor, right like, I'm sure, as a collector and as somebody who's like also in the space. You, you feel it too, don't you?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I mean on. I mean on some projects. You're like, oh man, I wish I got into that one. I know that's usually around the sometimes depending on the project, whether it's a PFP project, sometimes it's around the top. You're like I'm not going to buy it, or I should buy it, and then it comes down in price. You're like why did I do that?
Speaker 2:I know and you know, and it's harder because it's money. It's money, it's lives, it's people's whole legacies and their brand and all of it. It's kind of there, it's on the line almost. And I think it's easy to kind of get sucked into thinking that if I don't do this I'm never going to succeed. It's easy to feel that way, but it's not that way. I don't think so. You know, I think the NFT world is just and this is what I've told that person the NFT world is just another channel for you to leverage, to help boost yourself up with whatever it is that you're after, and I'm speaking more so on an artist side. So if you're like there for the money, it's just another way for you to make it. You shouldn't give up everything that you're doing, you know, and if you can afford to quit your job and all that, sure that's great, but initially don't make it your all until you know for sure that this is going to last and this is what you think you want your path to be and you want, you know, your art to completely be a part of. I would say that's number one. Number two is really to have patience, and I think, like I feel like almost every other day I'm posting about having patience and I know other people are too. But like I really mean it, like I think I've told you that back in March when I joined, like there were no big photography collection or work besides Justin's and a few others right, like you said, nathan's. But you know I've had my work sit there for months which without a single interest and it sucked, but eventually it found its collector. And I'm also seeing this from other people who have put work around that same time or put work even shorter, like they have it sit for a couple of weeks, a couple of months and it sells. And I know that people that it's easy for us to say because it's sold, and I know that people who have worked now they're like, yeah, I'm sure it's, like it's great for you to say cause you're sold.
Speaker 2:But I truly believe that if you do good work, you present yourself well, you're part of this community and it shows it'll come. And if it doesn't now, it doesn't mean that you suck or like you know that you're doing anything wrong. It just means you know you just haven't found the person to connect with it. Like and stuff that you collect, right. You're not going to go out and buy every little thing right as much as you probably want to, and that's the beauty about the space is people have options, you know, and I think just be patient.
Speaker 2:And I think maybe my last piece of advice is like for people entering the spaces and this works, I think everybody not just artists, but collectors and anybody was like be ready to to like use, like the skills that you're not probably used to using. I'll use it being an artist as an example, like I was not used to like having to promote my work so much and really like figure out my brand so quick and know how to sell right or know how to like market. But in this space, in this world, that's one of the benefits of Web3. That's how and that's why I think the middle person is kind of being cut out right. You have the choice to do that.
Speaker 2:You can be your own, you know curator, you can directly work with the collector, you can negotiate, you can promote, you can sell and I know that to some people that's not good, but to some people it is and you have the choice to do it now versus before. In the traditional space, you didn't really have that choice, or if you did, it was much harder. So I would say, people coming in, be prepared to, like, tap into some of those skill sets you know that you may have and not use, because it'll come in handy. And I think you'll notice from some of those bigger artists out there, not only are their art good, but they're you know, they're community members, they're vocal. I'm sure they know they have things about them that they excel in addition to their art is what I'll say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the flip side is that you may need to put in that extra effort that you're not used to do For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you don't have to. I don't think that's the only way. I think there are also people that have come in and post their work and have just sat back and they've been either. You know their work just stands out enough that people just straight up they buy it. But I'm seeing that if you want your work to kind of live on and have, you know, a life even after the initial sale, like you kind of have to like bring it up to light and talk about it, and you know what I mean. So those are, I would think, the three advice I'd give. So what are they like? Okay, Don't make it your everything. I say be patient and, just like you know, be able to kind of to be you and use those, some of those, those skills that you're not used to using.
Speaker 1:So if you could, live or move anywhere. Where would you live and why?
Speaker 2:That's an interesting question. I feel like it changes every couple of months. It's like whenever I'm like bored or whatever part of the city, the city New York that I live in that I'm bored of or I'm feeling I feel like I want to move to another city. That's like the opposite of that. So I think right now I'd love to kind of move to like assuming there's no COVID and everything was back to normal. I'd love to kind of move to like assuming there's no COVID and everything was back to normal.
Speaker 2:I'd love to move to like Japan for like a little while just, and it would mainly be for two things the food, number one, and then the photography. I think I kind of like love to plant myself somewhere. You know traveling is great but you don't have that much time to really document and capture things at a pace that you want to. And if you live somewhere, I think that was like that would be the ultimate key to spend more time. And so Japan has been always on my list, especially Tokyo has been always on my list to kind of like just spend a long time to kind of figure out, to give my take on, and it's also another big city, so I know I wouldn't be bored of it. As of right now, it'll be there.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's a good one. Do you have any questions for me?
Speaker 2:I do. So I basically did a little research. You know not that I have enough information, but I did research by looking at the posts that you posted and the pin tweet and I noticed you're also like very artistic, right, you have a kind of a background in product design and you've kind of dabbled in all sorts of like artistic ventures, like photography and technology, and I see some of your illustrations as well and I read your story, which I can definitely relate to, and so my question is being somebody who's coming from that background and going to school for it, and you saying that you've kind of been around talented people, was it a little bit discouraging or what was the right?
Speaker 1:I didn't want to mess up, oh yeah like I'm sitting so I hadn't even really I didn't apply for the like the actual school. I was just doing all the classes for a couple years to try and get into that school and I'm sitting next to guys that are like sketching up amazing stuff and they haven't even applied yet. I'm like, oh man, I'm screwed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I can relate to that. I think I know what it's like to kind of not feel like you know you're comfortable, I guess, like you don't feel comfortable with your work, and I think most artists you know, I know they don't think they ever will and I don't think I ever will. I'm very hard on myself and I've just come to accept it, and so the point of why I'm asking you this is do you think you would ever get back into it in a more serious light? Like I don't know what you do? It sounds like you have a business and I don't you know.
Speaker 2:This is again, Not that it wasn't, but it's more so and there's more options, and I think it's now the time to kind of own your art, and that's the one thing about this space that is kind of refreshing over the last year. It's like you can kind of own it. If it sucks, there's somebody that's going to like it. Even if it sucks to you, you, even if it sucks to like most people, there's still somebody out there that's gonna like be attached to it, whether it's the story or the way you did it or whatever. And so you know, would you ever go back? Would you ever consider going back number one, number two? Would we ever see something like a minted collection from the norcal, the norcal guy?
Speaker 1:so if I got back into doing the art, I probably would do like black and white photography, just because I love developing it and I don't know, it was just so fun. I had good memories doing that and potentially I would probably if I wanted to try like doing some 3d work like not like 3dD, like a 3D, like perpetual motion stuff like Joe Reba I think it is does it. He does like one every day and I don't know, I think it could be interesting. Just, I guess, because I am more of a like a, I like geometric, symmetric stuff and I feel like that could be interesting for me at least.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so too, and I think, as part of this space, you know, you've seen a lot of artists kind of dabble into different things, right. Like I know, like my friend Obak and Ravi, you know they're photographers, but they're not just photographers and it shows in this space. Right, they do a bunch of like you know conceptual, you know digital work, they do AI stuff, and so there's room for it and they're celebrated with that just as much, if not even sometimes even more, than their photography work. So I'm just telling you this to convince you, because I think the world wants to see a norcal guy uh, drop.
Speaker 1:So well, I might drop some of my old work just to. I guess, if anyone wants it, they can buy it for super cheap or something. But just also, so it's like minted Finally did find it. I was searching all these hard drives and everything and they were like corrupted. I'm like crap, it's gone forever. And then I found one randomly in a box and it worked. So I was like oh, I found my art randomly in a box.
Speaker 2:I was like and it worked. So I was like oh, I found my art nice and so, if and when you do that, are you more so on the boat now as an artist, where you're on the side of like you're going to provide utilities, or are you more so in the camp of like? Art is the utility. I know there's always like those two sides of the fence right now right.
Speaker 1:So I was thinking potentially dropping like just art for art, and then potentially something, but I don't even know what kind of utility I would do. I mean I could I was thinking about dropping something and then maybe think of something to do in the future, but haven't figured something out for that yeah well, I'm sure you'll figure it out.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of these things you know come into place once you start kind of throwing it together.
Speaker 1:Right, if it needs it, it needs it, if it doesn't, you know like I don't want to run a private discord or anything, so I don't know get access to.
Speaker 2:I don't have no idea yeah, there's a lot that goes into it. These days I underestimated how uh much work goes into, kind of like, not just like selling work, but the important part is just like getting people hyped about it and building like a life after it and all these things. Right, I think people just are so like you know, let me sell this and that's it, it's over, and that's okay too. But I think, like you, I'm here for the long run, so I want to make sure my work lasts, you know, and hopefully when you put your stuff out, it'll be in the same mindset.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, do you have any shout outs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess I'll shout out to a few people, since you asked the question earlier about how I found out about NFTs, so I do want to shout out to like a few folks and I might miss them all who have kind of helped me along with this journey, so like, for example, mike Ill Concepts, and there's like a few others Like I don't know most of their real names, I only know them by their like Twitter or Instagram handles, like Andy Knives, timu and my friend Moneris, a few other folks Sorry if I'm forgetting everybody I think Henry Henry Pestels, something like that, but those people they kind of were there to answer questions and were kind enough to always take time out of their day to get me on board when I had no idea what I was doing.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, thank you to you guys. And also, dude, thank you to you, man, for putting this stuff together. Like it's just great to have more visibility from different artists right in the community, and I think this is what is, you know, help making it so strong, especially like in the NFT photography community and overall just NFT community in general. So, yeah, kudos to you man.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks, Billy. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, we'll have to do it again soon. You have a good day.
Speaker 2:All right, thank you, take care everyone.
Speaker 1:Outro Music.