NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
The Daily Practice That Transformed a Community Organizer into an Artist
Gabe Weis entered the world of NFTs in January 2021 with the same intuitive excitement he regrettably ignored when first encountering Bitcoin years earlier. This time, he wasn't going to miss the revolution.
After a 20-year career in politics and community organizing—working for the Senate, unions, and education associations—Gabe's transition to full-time artist surprised nearly everyone in his circle. What they didn't know was that he'd been quietly painting almost every day since high school, using art as both meditation and a way to engage more deeply during the countless meetings his political career demanded. Those doodles, often gifted to meeting participants, were the foundation of a practice that would eventually lead him to the forefront of the NFT movement.
What makes Gabe's perspective particularly valuable is how he bridges these seemingly disparate worlds. His community organizing skills transferred seamlessly to building collector communities, while his political understanding helps him navigate the complex social dynamics of Web3. Rather than chasing astronomical prices for one-of-ones, Gabe envisions a future where digital art creates a sustainable middle class of artists through more accessible pricing and innovative models like weekly limited editions or subscription approaches.
Our conversation delves into practical insights about pricing strategy (including what Gabe calls the "dead zone" between 3-15 ETH), the advantages of low reserve auctions versus maintaining artificial floor prices, and the evolution of editions versus one-of-ones. But perhaps most compelling is his call for greater forgiveness in a space that can sometimes rush to judgment, and his emphasis on building genuine connections through simple practices like showing warmth and excitement when greeting others.
Whether you're an artist looking to navigate the Web3 landscape, a collector interested in supporting creators sustainably, or simply fascinated by the intersection of technology and creative expression, Gabe's journey from corn fields to crypto offers a refreshing perspective on building community around digital art. Listen now to discover why thick skin, trusted advisors, and authentic excitement might be the most valuable assets in the evolving NFT space.
Who is this? Who is this guy? Norcal and Chill Podcast. Norcal and Chill Podcast what the sh? What the sh? Norcal and Chill Podcast. Norcal and Shill Podcast what the sh what the sh NorCal and Shill Podcast. So it's shill time.
Speaker 2:NorCal and Shill Podcast. What the sh-.
Speaker 1:What the sh Welcome back to another episode of NorCal and Shill. Today we're thrilled to have Gabe Weiss, a remarkable artist whose journey from politics to full-time art is as inspiring as it is unconventional. In this episode, we explore Gabe's transition from a career in politics and community organizing to becoming a celebrated figure in the art world and the NFT space. Gabe shares his evolving artistic journey, starting from his high school days to his recent ventures in digital art. We'll delve into his process, the importance of daily practice and his perspective on the future of NFTs and digital art. Discover how Gabe leverages his political background and community building skills to navigate the complex world of crypto art, aiming for greater accessibility and creating a middle class of artists in the digital domain. Gabe also opens up about the challenges and strategies behind pricing art, maintaining market presence and his predictions for the evolving landscape of digital ownership.
Speaker 1:Whether you're an aspiring artist, a seasoned collector or interested in the fusion of art and technology, this episode offers rich insights into an artist's mind navigating the digital frontier. Stay tuned for an engaging conversation that bridges the gap between traditional artistry and the burgeoning world of NFTs. Everybody, please welcome Gabe Weiss. Hey, gabe, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Doing well, quite well, good to be on, appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I have wanted to get you on since we had that lunch in San Francisco. I've wanted to get you on since we had that lunch in San Francisco. It was you, me, og Amidon and like two other people which.
Speaker 2:I'm blanking on their names right now, but yeah, yeah, don't put me on the spot. But yeah, one was Mexpert, I remember.
Speaker 1:Big X copy collector.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't remember the. I don't remember that might have been it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe one other guy, but that was. It was great. I had a great time. It's my first time meeting you in person and og and um had a great time. We, uh just had a nice lunch and everyone rushed to get out before the traffic hit Right when, like uh, like, okay, it's lunch, oh shoot. Look at the time we got to get over the bridge before the rush hour hits. That was, that was good times.
Speaker 2:Yeah I, I miss the. Hopefully we get to do one of those again soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when we need to do, I need need to hit up OG's house because you guys or there has been a couple things at OG's, it's just like at the worst possible times for me to make it. But soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he hosts a pretty mean party, I'm impressed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what were your first thoughts when you heard about this crypto art and nfts?
Speaker 2:I. It's weird because it was roughly the same thought. When I heard about bitcoin the first time, I was like this is insane, like well, and I debate. Like the guy across the street from me in berkeley was like into bitcoin. He's like gotta buy 10 grand worth of stuff. It was like less than 100 bucks, oh wow, bitcoin. And I was like you're crazy. Like I was working for, like working in politics. I'm like they're never going to allow this, like I promise you they'll never allow it, right? Um, and so he ended up doing very well for himself.
Speaker 2:I bought no bitcoin and it was like, literally in my head, it was like next time I hear a really crazy idea, instead of just like saying it has no chance, I'm gonna like look a little bit more. So I spend like a night or two like reading about it. No, I think just one night. Then I get on a clubhouse oh yeah, like space. You listen on it and I run in and my wife's only seen me have this look like twice in life. But I was like there's this thing called nfts and we're going to be rich. She like always. She like always laughs at me thinking about it's like I've never seen you with that. Look where you're like and like.
Speaker 2:I never I've never been someone who cared about money. I never even heard you talk about money. But like, I was just like super. I I can't describe it, but I was just insanely gung-ho right from the get-go and I felt like there was. You can feel, when something's just about to like go hyperbolic, like it was january 2021. That's when I got in. Yeah, it was like before people, but like there was moment. There was like momentum starting to get there. I would say for sure.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so funny. No, I I had that same feeling like when I heard about bitcoin. I was like, wow, this is awesome, this is like gonna change the world. And then, when this finally clicked for me the whole like crypto art attached to like digital rarity and I was just like, oh man, this is gonna be like bitcoin, was like it's gonna change a lot of things and uh, I was definitely excited about it and it was nice to uh get it.
Speaker 2:But I got in on top shots first and then transitioned over yeah, there was this guy following x or twitter at the time, brian ramelli. He's like this thinker guy. I don't know much about him, but he talks about crypto quite a bit and he talks about the oldest currency in the world being these giant boulders that are on this one island and it's like I think for like 5,000 years or something it's been their same currency these 186 giant boulders and and it was like that. That's actually what I mean is like we decide what has value, and I think, in some ways, the thing that turned me on the most about nfts is like the level of abstract thought needed to like wrap your head around like a digital currency meets a jpeg meets digital ownership, like I.
Speaker 1:It naturally in my brings out people that I think think pretty abstract comparatively to the rest of the world right for sure, it's definitely a niche group of people that are like like I feel it as like we're the ones that are like, oh man, hyper, like whatever is about to happen, and then it happens 10 years later, yeah yeah, no, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:That exactly or like this just gonna be huge, like people like talking about, like CDs or something in the 80s right?
Speaker 1:no, it's exactly that, because I remember like Bitcoin early on, like it was like 13 or 14, and I was like telling everybody. I was like yo, this is gonna change the world. It's, it's like it's gonna, it's going to happen. It's going to happen in like next year at hyper Bitcoin. Is that everyone's going to be using it? I was just going crazy telling people. And then here we are. It's like 10 years later and it's not hyper Bitcoinization.
Speaker 2:Not not yet, but maybe 10 years from now.
Speaker 1:But yeah, this feels kind of like that exciting, awesome, but good, good times, good times and fun yeah so so what brought you to art? How did you get into painting?
Speaker 2:I've been painting almost every day since high school, but it was just like meditation, but also like I get hooked on wanting to get better at things.
Speaker 2:So at one point it's like been poker in my life or disc golf, where I just get totally obsessed and for like, probably like I painted every day. And then, in like, when I was like 22, 23, I had this experience that like got me wanting to do these kind of like faces looking right on straight ahead that were kind of timeless. I wasn't necessarily like I guess I mean truly not really influenced by Picasso. I'm sure I had seen some at that point, but like wasn't. It wasn't thinking like let's make Picasso-esque stuff, but more like let's make something that, like a caveman could understand or like a human hybrid in the future. So like and I traveled a ton, like used to live in brazil as a kid, so like. I've always been trying to like, like not necessarily focus in on one society or one culture, but like trying to make this thing that felt like it was a part of everything right, like both timeless and all around the world, and so I just did it every day, even when they were really crappy. I just like they would get better, like it'd get like 0.01 better every day, or like something, or I'd finally create an eye that I really like. Yeah, this is gonna be the new eye.
Speaker 2:Um, and then I was a community organizer and in politics I just had like hundreds and hundreds of meetings and I've always had those brains that like needs to be drawing in order to really pay attention. Yeah, so I would like have these meetings and I'd be like, hey, I'm gonna draw during it, but that's how I can actually pay attention. And then I would give it to them afterwards and like just a good way to create kind of friends, yeah, like when you hand them some art. Uh, afterwards, that's awesome. Um, so I would say I'm like the 10 000 hour guy where, like it got good but it took thousands of hours of like pretty crappy ones. So like finally finally get there. Like well, I used to say it'd be like one out of ten, I would really love like. Now I would say like probably like seven out of ten of my pieces I really like okay, yeah, there you go there's still some ones that don't hit, but like before it was like one out of 10 or one out of 20.
Speaker 1:So what jobs have you done along the way? Like, did you have any of those grunge jobs like in high school, like post high school and like college as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I have one of these things where I just never wanted to, I never liked authority, so like like, I think from the time I was like 11, my mom's one time was like like, if you're gonna, if you think I'm gonna like pay for one of your things, if you don't listen to me, like you're done paying for the, it's like gotta, like went and got a paper route. I'm from central illinois. There's a thing called detasseling, which is like pretty much child force labor camps where, like, you walk in these fields and you take the tassel out of the corn um, okay and it's. You're just getting yelled at by essentially like arnie's, like uh, who are hired to be essentially with these 13-year-old kids throughout Central Illinois to pick the tassels faster. It was getting cut by the corn. I did that. I worked at a pizza place for five years. I made all the prep cook and then cooked it and then eventually made it to delivery. Nice, I was a waiter, but last 20 years I worked in politics and community organizing.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:So I would say that's probably where I used to work in the Senate. Worked for a union, oh wow, worked for the california school board association. So, uh, art. When when I told people a few years ago that I was going to be a full-time artist, like almost no one like it couldn't have come out of more left field. They were like no one, even barely other than the people I'd given the little drawings to like. Oh yeah, Just like it. It didn't resonate Like what. That's awesome. So yeah, Been around the block, I guess.
Speaker 1:For sure. Well, I think it's better if you have. Yeah, what are the best things about Web3 today?
Speaker 2:I mean I go back to like I really like abstract thinkers, like I think it's just so easy to just get caught up in the status quo or just like going through kind of just like is what an american is two and a half kids, minivan, white picket fence like I just think like we're almost programmed to be so basic right now that like if and I'm not by no means are people in crypto or NFTs perfect there's a lot of people that have issues, but I just think, on the whole, like people I mean definitely people tend to like psychedelics in our community, or they're at least open-minded to it. They tend to like freedom and like personal freedom and sovereignty in ways that, like I personally am into. So for me it's just like self-selecting for people that are pro-freedom and probably think a little bit more abstractly about the world than just like kind of generically what it is to be an American right now.
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure. So where do you see digital art in five years?
Speaker 2:I think it's gonna. Five years is tough, maybe 10, it's like 10 years, I think. If it's ubiquitous five years, I still think we're still early. Okay, like until it's amazon and it's one click and like almost custodial.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of, I think a lot of the people that I think everyone that's for like self-custody is already here, but I don't think that, rep, I mean the vast majority of americans like aren't like sitting there holding gold with like guns to guard it. Right, like it's like they. They want a bank, they want it to be like insured by the fdic, right, right, like they they don't want to like oh, I potentially lost this very valuable thing. But also like I think we're going away. I mean there's going to be the x copy, there's going to be a couple of these really expensive nfts, but I think, in general, it's gonna.
Speaker 2:Where we're headed is a lot like a hundred dollars and less as far as digital assets are concerned. Right, I think that's probably a lot more where we're headed. Um, unless for it to go crazy, like if eth pumps or crypto just pumps astronomically, then there's enough people that have made money. But I think, like 2021 happened because a lot of people got eth at 80 bucks and then all of a sudden it was 1400 or something and like they just were sitting here with stupid amounts of capital to deploy. But a lot, of a lot of those ETH patrons are gone. I mean they exist, but it seems like now they're back to just the traditional art world of like collecting one of 10, one of 10 pieces of art or artists Fair, fair. Not seeing a lot of what I would say like real patrons in the space anymore.
Speaker 1:Right. No, I agree with that. I mean, I feel like I don't see much on the timeline of this being collected or that being collected. Yeah, it's definitely slowed down a bit.
Speaker 2:A lot, a lot of it yeah, I mean it's one thing to slow down, but it's just like if a 20th of the capital spent on like just x copy probably was put into like 200 more artists who are all now getting to live off their art and like I mean that's where the revolution is for me, like we can create a middle class set of artists in a way that doesn't exist right now.
Speaker 2:It's feast or famine yeah there's the jeff coons and cause of the world, and then, like there's the damien hirst, and then I think there's like five million artists in the united states or something, and almost all of them right like, are poor yeah or work, at least a job yeah, I think part of that, like I feel like a lot of what happened in 21, I mean, yeah, there definitely was like there was consensus around blue.
Speaker 1:Who was blue chip not necessarily they that they are blue chip, but who was blue chip and I feel that a lot of that was people that were like a front face for funds, not necessarily individual collectors, because I don't feel like I don't know, there was a lot of people that were front face for funds and like groups of people collecting versus individual collectors. I don't think there's a ton of individual collectors. I mean it's just, or maybe it's just the ones that blew up individual collectors. I don't think there's a ton of individual collectors. I mean it's just, or maybe it's just. The ones that blew up were the ones that were like faces of funds and they're only going to like invest in like what is blue chip, whatever that means.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that feels about right for me too, I think. But there were like I don't know when I got on like whale shark, like there were some people that were putting in considerable amount of money and it just felt like they were like propping up a lot of artists true, true.
Speaker 1:So what would you like this? I mean, you kind of you did just touch on this. Is there anything you'd like to see more of in the NFT space?
Speaker 2:maybe I don't know, we'll just go. We'll go.
Speaker 2:The most abstract thought I can think of, like maybe forgiveness or something Okay, I feel like there's so many people that get quote, unquote, canceled or like oh, you over minted or you whatever, and like then you're like done, like it's just the it's, it's an angrier space for how new we are. We're like the amount of people that talk like they're experts or like well, you should have done it this way or whatever it's like. I mean, the whole thing is less than five years old, like so like the fact that there's all these people talking like they're experts and like almost none of those people have made made it as an artist, like all the people on x like talking shit, like almost none of them have made it as an artist, so it becomes like hard to repeatedly hear their opinions.
Speaker 1:Like for sure. Yeah, no, I get that, I get that a lot.
Speaker 2:I I understand that, um for sure, I understand um, probably not the biggest thing, but I think I touched on it before like I just think, like I'm here so that we I mean I think if there were a couple thousand more like millionaire artists, like not necessarily like multi super gajillionaires, but like millionaire like I think that's when you can spark revolution, where a bunch of people don't have to work a nine to five and can really dedicate themselves to just art.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like hopefully bringing a bunch of other people up. I mean that to me is like the use case and the thing that gets me most excited about it. That's why I was like loved royalties, while it was a concept of like I just anything that gave money to artists I think is a worthwhile endeavor, and right now it just that's shrinking by the minute and it's like hard to imagine a lot of people wanting to get in. It's like right, it's hard for me to encourage people to want to get in because, like I know what it takes to try to break in and it's like better, have some help from some rich cabal members or you're screwed fair, fair.
Speaker 1:So okay, I'm curious on your thoughts on, like how do you view editions versus one of ones, like how do you you use them together?
Speaker 2:I pretty much stopped doing one of ones like first year 2021. I just I never really developed a group of folks who wanted to spend a lot of money and like that wasn't my that, that that wasn't what was exciting me. I think that was always kind of a man of the people come from, like organizing background, always had a man of the people come from, like organizing background, always had a lot of folks and like. And then the people I saw really crushing it like the x copies of the world and people's it's like they put out tons of work. I mean picasso, I mean 55 000 paintings in his lifetime or more.
Speaker 2:It's like you don't get remembered by having created a hundred pieces of art total in your career. I mean there's very, very few artists ever that made just like a tiny output and then, yeah, it might be good for their collector base but like they're not anyone you really remember unless they like commit suicide or you know it's like their roth goes like. I mean like it exists. But in general, the people, the boskiats, like everyone who makes it in art is prolific and I think the coolest part of web3 is that you get a bunch of fans and people who have are incentivized to hype you up, right? So if you'll maybe it was that lunch or maybe it was a different one talking with patrick amadon and at the time you'd only have one of ones out and I I was just like like you can cater to like 30 rich crypto dudes on the planet, or you can cater to the like billion people who would want your art, and I guess I I would rather have lower cost art and be seen as a champion of people and be accessible than like I've historically not been great at like kissing the ring to the rich collector base here and like I can't see myself getting better at it.
Speaker 2:Like I don't know, I'm just that's good, you see. Like it is like I'm the most transparent person you've ever met in life. It's like I just have a hard time. Like I come from politics, so like I guess maybe it was just years of like having to keep like your poker face, or now I'm just like yeah, yeah, like I earn the right to say what I think about stuff. You don't have to like it. But like yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to kiss ass just to sell an NFT.
Speaker 1:I like it. I like it. So switching it up a little bit. If you were an animal, what would you be and why?
Speaker 2:Oh, eagle, okay, Just for the. I mean, I just think flying, yeah, as simple as that. I I gotta do one of those zero gravity flights. Um did an nft project where I made some nfts for up for nifty gateway while I was like like floating and just those little experiences of floating near space was the most mind-blowingly amazing experience of my life. I almost get tingles thinking about it. So I imagine getting to do that constantly would be pretty rad.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That would be a fun experience. Yeah, do you have a favorite food?
Speaker 2:like, probably not to eat like every day of my life, but I would say uni oh, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:I like uni quite a bit and you're referring to like sea urchin?
Speaker 2:right, sushi, yeah, sea urchin, yeah, like, yeah, yeah, I think that's my favorite bite of a meal and you're referring to like sea urchin, right? Sushi? Yeah, sea urchin, yeah, like, yeah, yeah, I think that's my favorite bite of a meal. When you get really good sea urchin, like that tends to be like my favorite bite that I have for that month or two. I mean, I'm basic. I could easily say pizza there too, I love pizza. I could easily say pizza there too, I love pizza Fair.
Speaker 1:What's the best piece of advice you've been given, or do you have a mantra that you live by?
Speaker 2:It's actually the only parenting advice that I give anyone. I'm not super big on parenting advice, but this is the one I tell Someone told me and I've shared it with everyone. Anyone and like, I'm not super big on parenting advice, but this is the one I tell someone told me and I've kind of shared it with everyone. It's like be very excited when you, your kids, come home, and I've kind of taken that to almost everyone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if, if all people see you for is like a minute or two, but when they see you you actually look like excited to see them, I think you can stay kind of at least friendly with a huge amount of people and it just keeps people warm. The people are kind of E or E or just like. It's like how you doing, like I'm okay, like it just doesn't like. So I'm trying to show warmth and I think like, generally, if you, you can get away with being a dick, you can be away like with a lot of stuff. If, when you first see someone, you're like hugging them and, yeah, like looking excited and I think, tenfold if it's your kid, oh for sure, for sure, my, my kids haven't come in the house without getting like lifted up and hugged and like loved up, and then it's like they want to go. You know, read or something. It's not like I have to spend every second with them, but I just want to make sure that they come in and know they're in a place where they're loved.
Speaker 1:You know, that's awesome no, that's a solid one. I like that piece of advice. It reminds me kind of like what last week Pete Halverson, his podcast, went live and he said something along the lines of like like, be the happiness for someone that day, type of thing. You know, just go out and try and put smiles on people's faces, like, even if it's just one a day, you know, just do it Cause it makes it, makes your life better anyways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's probably the advice I give my kids is just like improve the room that you're in.
Speaker 1:Okay, that one's good, that one's good.
Speaker 2:So it's similar. Yeah, yeah, be the good vibes, like for sure. Whatever, whatever you're in, don't make, don't leave it worse, right.
Speaker 1:Right. Do you have advice for artists joining the crypto art space?
Speaker 2:Um, I would say thick skin. Um, get some for sure. Get a group of people that you actually trust and like know who will give you. Like, just give you the straight up like. I think anything in life is probably worth having that, but here in particular. But if all you do is read the timeline, you're gonna get so many mixed messages. It's good, you're gonna. It's gonna be impossible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and ideally a little bit like art professors, where it's like they give you advice and it's like but if they could have made it as an artist, they probably would. Instead of like needing to be an art professor, it's like try to get the advice from someone who's actually made it. In this scene is what I would say, because, like, there's a stupid amount of advice that I got from people that just really have no clue whatsoever. Solid yeah, it's a word you know they always talk about like average white guy or whatever. Like give me the confidence of a mediocre white male or something like that. Like the crypto, is that on steroids? It's like a lot, of, a lot of people with super confidence, but not necessarily justified, right, right.
Speaker 1:So if you could live or move anywhere, where would you live and why?
Speaker 2:New York City. It's just so damn exciting. I mean, I never got to do it in my 20s. I always thought it was, but I just kept getting better jobs here in california. And then like one of those things like before I'm 30, I'm gonna do, now I might someday like but like, but then california also makes you soft, so now I don't really think I can handle winter. I'm like I want to move to new york, like from september and october and then maybe in may so like three, three months of the year.
Speaker 1:That's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you have any questions for me?
Speaker 2:I'd love to know what's next for Click Create oh.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean we're finishing up season two right now. We have one more month left of curators, so bats. So currently is um pravin is curating this current month of october and next month we have bat soup. Yum, finishing off the year, and then we will be probably doing something for December I'm not sure exactly what yet. We're still in the works on that and then we've been recruiting all year for curators for next year and we'll kick it off again in February. Start season three.
Speaker 2:That's exciting. Any alpha you can share on any would-be curators so I can get in their good graces.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, that's a good question.
Speaker 2:Who do I have to kiss up to? I'm not kissing up.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that's good. Uh, I have to see, I have to go double check who's who's committed to it already and uh, maybe, maybe after this, we could, we can I was gonna say, let me slide into my dm. Oh man any other questions?
Speaker 2:um, I get. There's probably one I'd ask for anybody like. What keeps you here?
Speaker 1:man, that's a hard one because lately you're just like, for me I'm just like man, there's a lot like I, the stuff I see on the timeline I mean like I don't scroll the timeline, but the stuff I do see I'm like really like we're following this dude on what he's saying, like like really, we're doing this, like, come on, people like I, you don't like, yeah, yeah, it just bugs me and I'm, but you know, I, I don't know, I don't know what keeps me here sometimes.
Speaker 1:But the good people, I should say the friends. I've made some good friends and you know what I'll say friends will definitely help a lot in this space, definitely help a lot in this space. Like, I love touching, talking with clutch and prav um and para let and uh 787 um those are like the top ones that I talked to and og, here and there, um definitely talk to him. So it's a good amount of good people that I just talked to. And then, um, the tungsten dao has a djinn chat and that's just a fun uh chat to be in, because it's just a lot of bsing and talking about how crypto's over and whatnot after watching the chart or something like that.
Speaker 2:So it's good times, yeah I feel like you got it if you, if you didn't create enough any friends here, I don't think anyone would stick around.
Speaker 1:Honestly, yeah, yeah, friends definitely help and you know, keep your sanity, um, you know, just to know like people actually do care. And you're like dude, what the frick is going on, like like I. I don't understand it either, but people want to make money if they can. Either the people are trying to shill or they're.
Speaker 2:There's always going to be bad actors and so we're just at that point where people got to learn. Well, since I have you and I get to ask you questions.
Speaker 1:I'm going keep going. Let's do it, let's do it, let's do it.
Speaker 2:So I want, I want your consulting advice. What would you give for like what would you tell someone like I'll just say myself, exactly myself. Or you can, if you don't want to say exactly myself, you can definitely do, um, abstractly, like people who did very well at a certain point and have still done a couple successful drops here and there, but aren't in that top 25 people that are kind of have the big one-on-one sales consistently. Like what? How would you? How would you approach that?
Speaker 1:all right. So this is hard, this hard. This is a hard question and you know so. Okay, so there's definitely tiers of like made it, almost made it, but like you're in like this dead zone. And then there's like whatever tops here, whatever artists, and I'll throw down like the approximate. I mean it's probably changed a little bit now, but I feel like the approximate like it's like below three to five e, like is you can usually get lately it's been very slow, but it used to be like below three to five.
Speaker 1:Um, there's and I guess this is so I I'm a big additions fan but applying to one of ones specifically and then we can talk about, I guess, maybe additions after that. But below three to five eath was like pretty easy. And then once you go above that, between like three to 15 eath is like a dead zone, like there's no buyers in that zone. So if you like don't have momentum to break through that you're gonna have to. You should, should stay below that three to five ETH. I personally think, because you you want to hit those consistent sales until like people, actually you get that momentum of again to break through, and because of that I also feel like I'm a huge fan of like low reserve auctions, unless you're going to make like private sales off the record. Yeah, because I feel when you set those artificial floors it stalls your momentum, like, oh, okay, I just sold this at three and then I sold this one at five, and then I sold this one at six, seven, and then at some point you know it's not you're going to be running out of people are willing to throw down that money. So I always feel you should have a low reserve so it draws people in and it gets them hooked and wanting to win that piece and fighting for that piece, versus like I'm going to sit on it at eight reserve and have like one bed type of thing when, and also I mean I feel like moving your work is better than just sitting on it, if you can. You know, I mean, yeah, sure, it's good to have goals for, like, okay, this one, this one piece.
Speaker 1:And here's another thing I feel people can have definitely different price points. You know like, hey, you know, this includes this, this doesn't include this or whatever. No one's actually done that like. I don't feel like, hey, you know, if you just want a digital version, this is how much it costs and if you want the physical with it, this is how much it costs. Or if the auction gets above this point, I mean I've seen like if the auction gets above this point, you get the physical or a print with it. Like I think that could be an interesting dynamic where you could even just be like, hey, if you want to pay this price, this is what you get. If you want to pay this price, do you get this with it? If you want to pay this price, I'll just you know, let's grab dinner sometime when you're in the city, or something like that.
Speaker 1:I don't see a whole lot of that, but I think that's the thing is like people will stall their momentum a lot because of this floor price maintaining BS that everyone got into and it really screwed a lot of people up because they could have just thrown down like low reserves and people would just keep on bidding them up. But uh, you know, they got that in their that mindset of I need to maintain a floor which doesn't help the artist. That does not help the artist at all. It only, it only benefits me, the collector, for you to maintain my a floor that protects my investment yeah, I mean it's such a fine line like I only made people money for two years, like literally I don't think one person ever bought my art and then didn't sell it for a profit.
Speaker 2:Oh wow. And so you're like, yeah, you feel yourself for a while and like, literally I didn't talk to anyone for my first two years of nfts that I didn't make money for oh yeah yeah. So like you get hooked to that feeling of like I'm I'm making collectors money right sort of thing.
Speaker 1:And but then when you hit a multi-year like bear market, it's like well, I also need to feed my family for sure, for sure yeah and I mean, and that's the thing, like, there was also the one eighth equals one e thing crowd and I feel like they are mostly dying out or they can't, you know, actually defend that position anymore. Um, because, realistically, people are looking at the usd price of things and if you know, yeah, I mean that's why, like at click create, we cut our prices in half this year because eth doubled. So we cut our prices in half because, realistically, who's going to throw out, you know, double the amount of money than it was last year, just because eth is doubled? That's like usdc is the or usd is the price most people live by. Um, but as far as additions, I feel additions are the future.
Speaker 1:You know I I've been a huge, uh advocate of them for a long time because it allows you to still make one of ones. It allows me as a collector, even if I have already a one-on-one, I can still collect editions because it's a low entry point and I can support the artist. It's kind of like a patreon in a way, like an edition can be that way where you're like okay, I'll buy this because I like the art and I like to support the artist and I want them to continue making art. So editions is the easiest way to do that and more people can buy that. I think more collectors will do by multiple editions from artists than than artists feel like they, I feel like they have. Some artists have this mindset of a collector's going to buy, you know, this edition and then they're not going to buy anything else, when reality is most collectors are going to try and buy every edition from an artist just so they can like, support and have, you know, a bigger exposure to this artist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I mean I think in the last two years in particular, I mean I pretty much just did an addition every like two weeks for my first year or two, like that was, yeah, that was like all I did until I did the Stoics collection, like a big 5k PFP or whatever, yeah. But like I mean, if I thought that would still work, I probably would still do it. But for me it feels like a little bit more like you need to make like an album, like it's like me just showing one piece at a time, like I haven't really seen too many artists do that anymore, whereas like this idea I think, like ak probably did it the best with the piano stuff, but like this idea of like a nice collection, it is more intriguing to me. Yeah, uh, I, I just did a big drop as a collab in may on like with the ordinals.
Speaker 2:okay, um, we, we minted out 2 000 of them oh nice, yeah, it was a very successful drop, but like, yeah, it's like constantly evolving and like trying to think of like how to do something cool and innovative. Right, that's a fine line it is. I mean, I wish it was as simple as like I love painting, I'd love to make like one, one edition a week and like have people like it. But you're just constantly like how do I keep an ongoing market in this space without yeah oversaturating myself and yeah yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean, the flip side is you could do one a week. It's just an addition of 10, whatever or 20, I have no idea what size, and you know. Like, hey, these are what is out there. If you want to buy it, buy it, I don't care. Um yeah, I have no idea, but I feel like no one has really done that either. I mean, the closest now that we have is like Rodeo or Odeo, whatever it is, but that's all free stuff and that's kind of no thanks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, it's interesting. But you know, I don't know how you make money on that, especially if, like, royalties aren't like enforced, like you're just throwing out good art and if someone's not paying royalties on future trades or on that art, then that kind of sucks alright, you got me thinking.
Speaker 2:Maybe I just do like a 10 of 10 at 1 E for like once a week, 52 weeks. That's like that's getting to be a middle. That's getting to be like middle class I don't need to be rich, but that's getting to be like middle class, like I don't need to be rich yeah but it would be nice to just feel like you had a steady income yeah, no, I think it.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think it has a lot of potential. Um, you know, and maybe the new year you do a larger edition and then you know every week after that and, because i't know, it's got to be. Sometimes it's interesting because, if you have, because a lot of collectors are kind of competitive and some people, like, want complete sets of stuff. So, oh, you know, who did a good job at this Was May. A good job at this, um was may. Um, she did like a subscription model where or it wasn't a super, no, it wasn't a subscription, but it was every month she did one, really one edition, and she was selling like 90, I think, a month. So, and she did it for one year and then she stopped, just cause she was like it was cool though, but she was like the only one that did it and she got good support out of it. But, yeah, something like that, I think could be cool.
Speaker 2:It's good. I'm always just hopping around trying to think of, like the biggest best idea or being first or something you know like, and I think it's like the same thing everyone does and I've been pretty clever at it so far, but at a certain point it's like I I'd rather it be easier.
Speaker 1:Right Fair. I just want you know something that's tried and true and it works, so I get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, huh. Well, I appreciate you answering my question, yeah of course, of course. While I get free consulting. You know, why wouldn't I?
Speaker 1:So do you have any projects you were working on or you'd like to talk about at the moment?
Speaker 2:projects you were working on or you'd like to talk about at the moment, uh, nothing. I wouldn't say anything super imminent. I have, like I got multiple collections that are kind of done. But going back to like looking for the perfect way, like it's funny because it's like advice, like there's some things where, like I know, if I was outside of myself I'd be like just release the art, don't be such a wimp, right, right. But when it's your own stuff, you're like all right, it has to be perfect, it needs to be the right platform, right time.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Put too much work into it for it not to be a thing. Um, I have been exploring the say network. Okay, um, it's, it's hard when everything is like 40 cents, like well, they're like a say is like 40 cents, so you're like, but I I kind of think the sweet spot for nfts really is like 10 to 50 bucks, like, okay, if everything I did was an open edition for like 50 bucks and you know, certain ones went crazy, certain ones maybe didn't, but like that would probably be my super ideal way of doing it. Um, just give some profit on the ones that really hit right. So they essentially have like no gas. I mean it's like less than a cent. Um, and then they have like a burgeoning community. I mean it's tiny, a burgeoning community, I mean it's tiny. But I will say I have some interest in like trying to be new somewhere, because I think like too late to be x copy or people on ethereum right like or the punks or whatever it is like.
Speaker 2:That's like history of the history of the maid, whereas, like I could still make a lost rot, like lost robbie of say, yeah, yeah all right so like, and if it's not say you know, at least my head's at like, try to try to go somewhere where you can make an impact, because right now youth is too big. I not that it can't happen, but I'm not seeing very many artists like really impact the culture. I think patrick amadon does a pretty good job. Um, I mean there's, there's artists that maybe try, but very few I think are actually impacting the culture. I think they're like just playing along, you know, staying with what's on trend.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And then making a lot of glitchy art that looks like X-copy.
Speaker 1:Fair, fair, fair.
Speaker 2:Awesome, like x copy fair fair, fair, awesome dude gabe.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for your thoughts, man. That was a great interview. I really enjoyed it. It was uh the laughs, the thoughts and uh your time.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much I really, really appreciate it. I uh, I'm sure not the easiest person to interview because, uh, I don't stay on, I don't stay on message, but uh, no, I, I really enjoyed myself and thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Who is this guy?