NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
The Art of Digital Connection
Venture into the dynamic world of crypto art and NFTs with Eli Scheinman, whose journey from skepticism to passionate advocate offers fresh perspectives on digital ownership and creativity.
Eli's story begins with healthy doubt – finding NFTs both "crazy" and "absurd" – yet these very qualities sparked a curiosity that led him deep into the blockchain art ecosystem. Unlike traditional collectors with lifelong habits, Eli approached the space with fresh eyes, drawn not to collectability but to the revolutionary creative canvas blockchain technology offers artists and creators.
The conversation takes a particularly meaningful turn when discussing the human element of Web3. "The best things in Web3 for me are the relationships," Eli shares, highlighting an intriguing paradox where digital objects become the connective tissue for profound real-world connections. For adults who typically struggle to form diverse new friendships, the Web3 community has facilitated connections across geographical, professional, and cultural boundaries in ways traditional social structures rarely achieve.
Looking toward the future, Eli offers a measured perspective on adoption timelines, suggesting that while five years might not show dramatic shifts in the collector landscape, the 10-20 year horizon will likely reveal substantial evolution as digital-native generations gain purchasing power. His market insights cut through typical hype cycles with practical wisdom: "Demand matters more than supply," he notes, explaining why established artists can expand their output while emerging creators must be more strategic.
Beyond crypto discourse, Eli's fascinating life experiences enrich the discussion – from a solo bicycle journey from Vancouver to Mexico followed by months working on a Hawaiian farm, to meaningful time spent with seed savers of heirloom rice in rural South India. These adventures have shaped his minimalist collecting philosophy, where meaningful connection trumps accumulation.
Whether you're a seasoned collector, curious creator, or simply interested in how technology shapes culture and community, this episode offers valuable perspectives on the human connections forming at the intersection of art and technology.
Who is this? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Who is this guy? Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal and chill podcast. So it's chill time, norcal and chill podcast. What the fuck? What the chill? Norcal and chillill Podcast. What the sh what the sh-? Norcal and Shill Podcast. So it's Shill time, norcal and Shill Podcast. What the sh-, what the sh-. Welcome to this next episode of NorCal and Shill.
Speaker 1:Today we have Eli Scheinman as our guest, diving deep into the world of crypto art and NFTs. Eli initially found the concepts of crypto art and NFTs. Eli initially found the concepts of crypto art and NFTs both crazy and absurd, which fueled his curiosity. Although he didn't see himself as a collector growing up, he's now drawn to NFTs for their creative potential rather than collectability. A big part of the conversation touches on the unique relationships formed through Web3, making it a rich area for human connection. Looking ahead, eli predicts it will take time for the broader collector base to shift, driven by younger generations gradually gaining purchasing power. He also sees an increase in the number of creators, contributing to greater diversity in crypto art. This episode also highlights the slow adoption of NFTs and cryptocurrencies, eli's minimalist approach to meaningful purchases and his ideas for potential art collaborations. A heartfelt segment reveals the personal significance behind Eli's favorite NFTs, adding an emotional layer to the conversation. Overall, this episode is a treasure trove for any crypto art enthusiast, blending market insights, artistic values and the human connections making the space so vibrant.
Speaker 1:Don't miss out on this engaging discussion that explores the future landscape of NFTs and blockchain art. Everybody, please welcome Eli Scheinman. Hey, eli, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great. I'm excited to chop it up. This is long overdue. You're one of the absolute best. So excited to spend some time together Wow.
Speaker 1:Put some pressure on me. Uh, no, man, it's good. Um, you know, you've been around the space, been a part of some different art projects and it's. It's great to actually get to sit down and have a chat and see what your thoughts are on some things. It'd be great, it's going to be fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 1:So what were your first thoughts when you heard about crypto art and NFTs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, my first, very first thought is that, or or was that like this is crazy, uh-huh, um and absurd, and um didn't fully understand it, and for all of those reasons, uh, it was really fascinating to me, right? Um, you know, I'm a relatively curious person by nature, open minded, and so those things that were difficult to understand and esoteric made it all seem very attractive. So that was sort of the initial effect that that NFTs had on me, initial effect that that nfts had on me. And then, I think, because there was this curiosity mixed with lack of understanding, um, that really pushed me down the rabbit hole, um to to go relatively deep, uh, and then, you know, now I find myself here did you collect anything beforehand like basketball cards, art or?
Speaker 2:no, you know, I've never I've never really thought of myself as a collector, um, and I never went super deep on like magic cards or Pokemon or I mean when I was very young baseball cards a little bit, yeah, but that was quite young. There's no sophistication with the collecting there. Right, some hockey card collecting, so I was trying to get as many Pavao Bure cards hockey player as possible, but, you know, not with any sophistication at all. That was more of a childhood thing. And you know, the collectability side of NFTs and art on the blockchain was not this principal thing that I found most interesting. It was more that this is this brand new canvas for creativity and for artists and creators to do things that I hadn't seen done before, and there was this way to interact with those creations in this novel way, way to interact with those creations in this novel way, and so I think those elements are what really created a collector in me, right?
Speaker 1:No, I like that. What do you think the best things are about Web3 today?
Speaker 2:It's a great question.
Speaker 2:I mean the, the, the, the, you know, the.
Speaker 2:I think this is maybe like a, a hand wavy answer, but the best things in web three for me are the relationships, which is is I think it is interesting dichotomy, because some of the strongest bonds I've cultivated and made with people who are my peers in the space, like yourself, have actually occurred mostly in person.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yet it's the digital objects and the networks around those digital objects and this shared, uh, fascination and engagement with those objects. More or less that is the connective tissue that brought us together, and so I think it's the thing I I value most about web3 in this moment is that interpersonal element of it, which exists in part online but is really a function of what's happened online and is then translated into IRL moments that would be hard to replicate and, in particular, as an adult, some version of an adult, to cultivate net new relationships, friendships with really diverse people from all over the world with different competencies, different backgrounds. That's unique, that's not normal, I don't think, to the human experience for most people. So that's probably the part that that I think is sort of most special yeah, no, that's very true.
Speaker 1:Um, to think I would be making new friends at the age I'm at is like like no, that's not, that's not gonna happen, but yeah definitely in the space you're like.
Speaker 2:Oh, man yeah, you think like what are the, what are the analogous versions of like cultivating new relationships as an adult? It's like like maybe it's like the country club and like you make friends with your golf, new golf buddies?
Speaker 2:right right that's different, because that's such a filter for the type of people who are country club members right already. That's such a filter for the type of people who are country club members already. And there's, you know, other probably sort of social clubs and groups. Like you know, maybe you take up playing paddle or something and then, like you have this new group of people you play sports with. But it's very unique?
Speaker 1:I think it is. It is definitely unique, definitely yeah, because I mean outside of like like what you mentioned, like basically the country club, which I feel like that probably is like the only place in most towns, if they even have one, besides like being the local at the bar that everyone knows.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah true, yes, yeah, the watering hole is still a great place to cultivate the relationship.
Speaker 1:Yes, so where do you see crypto art NFTs in five years?
Speaker 2:That's another very good question. You know, I think we could unpack that in a couple different ways. Probably. The thing that comes to mind for me first is what does the collector base and the addressable market around crypto art look like?
Speaker 2:Who is engaging with crypto art is the place I go first with crypto art is the place I go first, and in five years, my assumption is that it actually doesn't look that much different than it does today.
Speaker 2:You know, I think we probably need slightly longer time scales 10 years, 15 years, 20 years to see the composition of those intimately engaged with crypto art and for crypto art to be just ubiquitous in daily life. It's probably a little bit longer than, let's say, five years, because someone who's maybe 15 today, who lives online and experiences ownership over digital objects natively and just gets it, they don't have purchasing power to engage with crypto art maybe for another 10 years or something in 15 years. So that's the first place I go. I mean, I think you'll see just a proliferation of creation. I think that the number of creators engaging with crypto art is still so small and minuscule that creating on the blockchain and expressing some of those ideals of crypto art will become increasingly ubiquitous and so much more surface area, uh, expressed, uh over time. But you know, I think, outside of that, what we could take it to a sort of a market perspective or a traditional art collector uh adoption perspective.
Speaker 1:But those are the first couple things that come to mind there yeah, you know, I kind of agree with you on the timeline as far as extending it out a little bit, just because, like in crypto itself, it's taking so long for what people thought would happen potentially sooner because of the technology that it is. But you know we're looking at like 14 years that bitcoin's been around now somewhere in there and we're still barely scratching the surface of people like what is cryptocurrency? Is it a scam?
Speaker 2:still type of thing yeah, and I mean, how do you separate crypto art from generative art, from other forms of art on the blockchain? Or when you say crypto art for you, is that everything? Nft.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say it would encompass all art forms that are on the blockchain. I mean, I definitely could see maybe generative art potentially. I don't know. I don't know if it's easier to grasp, but there's something tangible to the fact that all the code is on the chain and you can produce that image anywhere, as long as you got the chain. There's something to that I definitely agree, which is different than like, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:What's your view on Xcopy?
Speaker 1:Are you an Xcopy?
Speaker 2:collector.
Speaker 1:I mean I have a couple of his pieces. I don't have any one of ones. I have some additions, I okay, so I'm not a hype guy, I don't buy the trends and yeah, also x copy I would look at as more of an investment. Not like that. I like the art, like I, I and even at that point I would say the multiples of return on an x copy are probably not worth what you would buy a one-on-one for, because sure, in reality, and especially people that are buying x copies are buying it in eth and they want to sell it in eth. Are you going to get that multiple return putting like 250 eth into a one of one versus like if they priced it in usd? Yeah, so I, I don't see the upside to an X copy myself. Sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when are you seeing and now I'm flipping the tables here where I hope that's okay, yeah, I love it when are you seeing opportunity in this current market, Like, where do you see there's maybe a multiple opportunity over here or over there, or do you? Is that not part of your, your mental model for collecting and you're buying stuff that you, you love and you want to hold forever?
Speaker 1:Well, okay. So there's a couple of ways you could approach this. There's buying. You know, if you're looking for multiples, if you want to make multiples right now, your easiest bet is to collect on Rodeo for free.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting yeah.
Speaker 1:That's the bet. That's the bet Because it's free.
Speaker 2:You think some of those that are basically free might, might ultimately have some real value yeah interesting I mean that's pretty much what x copy was.
Speaker 1:It was dirt cheap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, not that these people approach over there what is your approach over there, just to like collect so broadly? Oh no, like you're like angel investing. It's like let me just get everything no or is it like?
Speaker 1:yeah, I won't buy everything like I I have collected on rodeo and I will only collect the pieces I think are good. I'm not going to collect every service, everything, yeah, um, within the space, I definitely would say editions over one of ones If you're looking for multiples to return and if I want to say, like not to toot my own horn, but Click Create probably has like the best editions.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And they're curated under a theme, so there's some cohesiveness to it. Yes, um, so that probably is where I would look, not investment advice, but, yeah, that's what I would say yeah, it creates the best.
Speaker 2:I love what you guys are doing but yeah, that's uh, I guess how I would approach it yeah, yeah, that that made sense and I I haven't heard, so I had cave on from uh I call it rodeo um on on our podcast earlier and and uh, my thinking on it has evolved. I, I thought it was, um, maybe not the the most net positive for artists to be sharing work in that way, but he reconstructed my thinking, I think. Enough in that conversation where I can see the value prop for artists in a couple of different ways. I hadn't heard your perspective from the collector viewpoint where, um, where that maybe it's just enjoyable and fun. That's one, but two, there might actually be a path there to collecting basically free work from some artists who really have some escape velocity in. Maybe it is five years from now. Right, it's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean, dang, I was going to touch on something and now I'm blanking on it. Um, anyways, yeah, I don't know what I was gonna say it was there and then it's gone um, yeah, that happens but yeah, I, I mean I it on that platform, it's oh okay. I was going to say I don't know if I necessarily agree with free art going out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's the flip side of it. I think you should cause. When it's free, it's not necessarily valued, but what's interesting is that a lot of that stuff on Rodeo Rodeoo, whatever they call it is relatively low additions yes, yes, it is well.
Speaker 2:I like the ephemeral element. Right, it's 24 hours, yeah, and then you cannot mint it again. So you're right. I was looking at, uh, some artists um open c page for rodeo and most of the edition sizes were like four. Yeah, there was like one, there was like two and then maybe a 12. And you're right, they're very small editions. If that was X copy in, you know, in 2020 or something, 2018, like wow, great opportunity.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, it's cool, it's interesting. Um, yeah, for sure, is there anything that I switched, it switching I turned the table there.
Speaker 1:Hey, I like it. I like it, it's fun. We're gonna get to more of that you know later. But switching back back to what would you like to see more of in the crypto art space?
Speaker 2:Well, help me out here. From the artist side or from the collector side? Let's start there.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you have a unique perspective because you kind of like bring them together in a way Sure, as do you. But yeah, so I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me, let me see, you know, I think it's a great, great point, like from my vantage point not not trying to put on an artist's hat or a collector hat from my vantage point, not trying to put on an artist's hat or a collector hat From my vantage point, I think that one of the things I'd like to see more is long term stewardship and patronage, meaning that this has almost nothing to do with the so-called traditional art world notion of exclusivity. It has a lot more to do with partnership and very durable career building and sustainable career building with the right partners. And so you know what does that? I'm talking like really abstract terms. What does that actually mean? You know? For example, I think it would look like an artist and an intermediary, meaning some platform or gallerist those are sort of interchangeable in our world in some ways and a collector working together and having a relationship that evolves over many months and ultimately many years and decades, and that there's trust amongst those three parties and that it's net positive for everyone across those three uh three stakeholders in that relationship. They all add value, right, like the collector is collecting the artwork, but then they're also amplifying for the artist. So I'd like to see a lot more of that.
Speaker 2:I think it's natural that in a very nascent industry and space that there is, there's more switching. The switching costs are very low and everyone is still kind of sorting it out for themselves when do I fit, what does work for me, what do I need? So it's natural, I think, that people are sort of experimenting in those relationships. It's probably healthy ultimately, but I'd like to see us get to a place where people sort of find their people, meaning artists find the right partners to release work, collectors find the partner, the intermediaries, their partners that they trust to curate effectively. The artists get to know the collectors directly, who they're selling work to. I'd like to see more of that and I think you know Click Create is doing important work in that sort of intermediary role, that connector role. Proof is trying to do versions and myself, you know, individually, I'm trying to do versions and myself, you know, individually I'm trying to do a version of that as well. But I'd like to see those more durable relationships that are fundamentally, you know, they're built on trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, uh, more than anything, um, so I'd like to see that for sure so the next kind of question is kind of your approach or your thoughts on does supply matter and how do you think additions and one of ones should work together?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think the way I'd answer that is to say that demand matters more than supply. Okay, yeah, matters more than supply, okay, yeah. And what I mean is that for someone like Xcopy, supply matters very little because there's sufficient demand, and for an emerging artist or maybe a so-called mid-tier artist, supply matters a lot because there's there's less demand, there's sort of medium demand perhaps, or the demand has been met even at that moment in time, right, um, so I think, basically, x copy can expand his supply almost indefinitely and there will always be demand to meet that supply. Most artists, artists, that is not the case, and the only difference there is the demand. So, yeah, it absolutely does matter in my view.
Speaker 2:Now I think, if we go back to the rodeo conversation, that is reconstructing my views on scarcity just a little bit, because artists are releasing work almost every day. In some cases they are all additions and so you get. You know, if you aggregated all of those works from an artist, you'd be adding to their supply quite quickly, quite quickly. And I think the question that is unresolved there so far is does that additional supply for, in particular, for an emerging artist, affect maybe their one-of-one sales over here that they already have or that they anticipate having in the future. I think that's TBD. We'll sort of. We'll see how that plays out.
Speaker 2:The one thing I think is's TBD. We'll see how that plays out. The one thing I think is worth noting is that something like Rodeo it exists, the work that's being released there, even if it ultimately is adding a lot of supply for an artist within a context that might just be discreet enough from their addition with click create, or from their generative project with art blocks, or their one of ones on super rare, that thing over here. Let's just call it rodeo, but there's other examples might be contextual enough and it's in 1155, that it doesn't affect those other collections and their other work in the same way as if you know everything was on their own contract. They're releasing new editions every day, so I think it's context dependent and demand is really the vector of of supply and demand that matters most right, no, no, that makes sense, like I I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know the whole additions thing is. I guess it depends on if people get the I want to collect them all type of thing and want to collect all those additions versus like I only want one of those or yeah, it all, just yeah. Which is back to demand like I need the whole set or do I just need?
Speaker 2:a couple of these which is an interesting thing, yeah how big are the edition sizes of the click create releases typically?
Speaker 1:uh, we are at like 110 or so that's a that's a great size. Yeah, and those are 721s or 1155 they're 1155s yep, yeah, yep, cool yep what is a piece of advice you've been given, or do you have like kind of like a mantra that you kind of run through your head, that you kind of live by?
Speaker 2:oh, that's a great question. I didn't prep for this one. Let's see. Um, I have a favorite. One of my favorite quotes okay, is a bruce lee quote oh, um, which is I might not get it exactly right, but it's time, it's something to the effect of. Time means a lot to me, because I'm often lost in the journey of forever developing. Oh, it's something to that effect, and what I take away from that is, or what that means to me, is that curiosity means to me, is that curiosity and having an open mind and wanting to learn and listen, learn from others mostly are the things I value most and I try to get as much of that in as possible, so that one has always struck me as a sort of orienting lens for my worldview in some respects.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that one. That's really good. If you could live or move anywhere, where would you live and why?
Speaker 2:Okay, I like these questions the most. Um, well, so, um, after I finished university, I did this uh, we call it university in Canada Um, not college. Um, I did, uh, a solo bicycle trip, a bike tour from Vancouver, canada, to Mexico. Oh, wow, and and. So that in and of itself was a great journey, but at the end of that journey, I flew to the big island of Hawaii and lived on a farm picking coffee and climbing coconut trees and this bevy of tropical fruits for around six months, and if I did not have to be online and on calls in a time zone that is respectful of the East Coast, I would maybe move to Hawaii somewhere just to have that immersion in nature, ocean, jungle, hiking. For me, those are the environmental things that make me most content.
Speaker 1:Oh, man, I had no idea. That's really awesome. So if you were an animal, what would you be and why?
Speaker 2:Wow, I think. I mean maybe this is a cop-out. I'm curious what your other guests say, but for me it's like chimpanzee. Okay, there's something that's like human enough about a chimpanzee, and maybe I'm projecting, but human enough about a chimpanzee, but with this sort of playful bent that I think more humans probably need and would be well served to have in their own life.
Speaker 2:That the playfulness and the ability to sort of navigate nature with that play is maybe the spirit of an animal that I think is um is pretty fun yeah, I like that, that's very solid. What do most of your?
Speaker 1:guests say oh, I guess.
Speaker 2:Uh, there's a lot of bird like eagle or some sort of bird um, oh, you set me up for the, the perfect punch line, which would be owl from my proof folks. No, let's not go there.
Speaker 1:All right, we won't touch that, but leading into what is the best thing and the silliest thing you've spent money on, oh geez.
Speaker 2:Um, man, that's a good question. I mean, if I'm, this is the worst answer. But, um, I'm a, I'm a minimalist, and so the I do not really spend on on things that would would ever feel to me like superfluous or or it's kind of silly. Yeah, that feels so boring and like stop trying to be like this stoic minimalist guy, but it's, I think it's true. And then the thing that I've spent on that is maybe the most meaningful are actually these different art objects that I have.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So I have these, helena Saron whiskey tumblers, okay, she handmade that.
Speaker 2:She released with us. Yeah, that's one of my absolute favorite things that that I have. I have this emily she physical, uh work, um, that I absolutely love. Um, I have a people physical, like there are these couple physical art objects, yeah, that are also charged or imbued with my relationship with those people or the way it was created or the way I acquired it. That, yes, it's like a little mug or whiskey tumbler, but it has all of that meaning baked into it, right? So those are, those are probably my favorite purchases. Those are both pretty boring answers. I'm sure you get some wilder things said on this.
Speaker 1:No, it's good on this one, it's good. Um, yeah, to have that like pottery made by alina is pretty pretty solid, so sick. Yeah, yeah, this one's gonna be hard. If you could commission a piece and have two artists collab on it, which two artists would it be? And have two artists collab on it, which two?
Speaker 2:artists, would it be? Can I put it back to you? Have you answered this question before?
Speaker 1:I have, but I answer it like differently every time.
Speaker 2:If you okay. So while I think about it, who would you choose?
Speaker 1:Oh man, man, today I'm kind of I don't know. Jeff Frost pops into my head now, but who would he collab with? Because he's a video type, a time-lapse, unique Like that will do robotic arms with cameras and like make them move in different ways. So who would that collab with? You know, like I wonder if it'd be interesting to collab that with some sort of like painting. So maybe him and like'm just gonna throw out molly mccutchen because she's been she's with.
Speaker 1:She dropped a click rate this month and she's on my mind, so like if he did some sort of time lapse of an art piece, of a big art piece or something, and like I think it could be interesting. I don't know what it would be like, but it'd be kind of crazy. Who knows?
Speaker 2:I love that. Okay, great, great collab suggestion the place, the place I go is that the obvious contributor to this collaboration is ACK.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And Alpha Centauri, kid Yep. There's something about his mind, but also his aesthetic, that I think is such a good complement to a collaborator, because it's distinct, it's wholly his, and then is also sort of versatile enough to take on a few different forms, which I think is fascinating about his body of work and his process. So, for example, I'm imagining like a, an ACK, emily Shi, to go back to Emily and, like you know she, she has all of these sort of textile based Asian influenced patterns in her work. And then like ACK, with his glitch aesthetic, um, and some of the sort of floral elements of what he does. I think there's something pretty cool there. Um, that's, that's my final answer.
Speaker 1:All right, ak, emily she all right, that works, that works, I like it. I feel like you kind of threw this out there already but if you have and you can, and it was for me, the interesting fact about eu was that you, like did a bike ride and then you lived in in hawaii and, like, worked on the farm. But would you like to let others know about another interesting fact or just roll with what we already said?
Speaker 2:I mean, I've had as is true of so many people, I think, in crypto a bunch of different lives, and you know the one that people will sometimes I own, uh, I wish I I had it behind me, I could go get it. Uh, if, if you want, uh, is this beautiful sculpture, um, made by one of the most renowned seed savers of heirloom rice in south india, and he gifted me this sculpture that he made with these heirloom varieties of rice, oh, wow, which, for their culture, is deeply important as a way to transmute their history and their culture into the next generation. So that whole experience of being immersed in South India for over a month, in the most rural parts of that area, spending time with these farmers, was transformative in a lot of ways, and so that's maybe less a fun fact and a little more color to my background.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that is amazing, I like that answer.
Speaker 2:I wish I had it here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you'll have to get it for the next show 100%.
Speaker 2:I'll send you a picture, all right.
Speaker 1:So do you have any questions for me?
Speaker 2:Oh, I have so many questions. How long can we go? Let's do it okay. Um, where do you think we are in in web3 crypto art? Are we? Are we sort of resetting in a healthy way for sort of the next phase? Are we in a sort of challenging spot and it's uncertain where we go from here? Do you have your own concerns about the trajectory of things? How are you feeling about sort of now and what's forthcoming?
Speaker 1:I mean I think it's been a good reset. We've had a lot of people leave, not that that's a good thing, but it kind of is a good thing to have people that aren't here for the right reasons be out no-transcript and it happens because they're not traders, they're not used to doing these or getting into the hype and then losing their money on it. So that kind of sucks and that's definitely going to happen again. To like everyone. I mean they lost their shirts on.
Speaker 1:A lot of them lost their shirts on like PFP trading and then the meme coins and whatnot um, and I guess like that concern is just like hopefully that they have learned a lesson that hasn't ruined them and they'll, you know, just keep on chugging. You know, part of it is like I feel like a lot of artists came in as artists and then transitioned to being a trader instead of making art anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which kind of sucks let me ask you about that like when the um, the meme coin moment in the summer was kind of going crazy and a bunch of artists were like really leaning in and like posting about their meme coin profits and trades and like on the one hand, I appreciate that you know being a full time artist is incredibly challenging and so like yeah, fuck, yeah good for you Go find ways to ultimately focus more on your art, of course, but then the other sort of less charitable view of that was like no focus on your art. Art don't be like meme coin trading all day. Like just make art and and show me art.
Speaker 1:I mean I don't know if you had a view on or have a view on that yeah, I don't know if I it's the like, it's more like I've and I felt like this is like I love your art and I feel like you stopped and I sure I don't care if people trade meme coins or pfps or whatever, but you know, I liked your art and now I haven't seen any of it in like who?
Speaker 1:knows how long yeah, and that's I guess, and maybe that's just me. Like dang, I like this artist a lot and now I'm like I wish they made art still, or they still were making art, or you know, are they just traders now? So I don't know. There's different ways to approach it and it I'm happy with. I want the artists to make the money, to make money regardless. However you want to do that, it just sucks when you have something that you loved and then you'd like try to drop it, which makes me, you know question like how much did you love it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, how do you think about um, click create and um and some of the things we talked about supply and demand, but also like choosing artists and and collaborators, and you get pressure from your collectors of click create works to say, like, stop releasing, focus on the other, the ones you already released, like from the, the founder platform side? How do you think about some of those things?
Speaker 1:well, I definitely feel. I mean, as the space grows, I think edition sizes are going to have to grow regardless for everybody. If you want to build that, you know you want to build fans of your work or your project and you know, potentially 100 edition size is not enough. I mean, granted, we're doing it like every week so people can join into it, but I still feel like it's still on the small side. Um, definitely would like to go larger when demand is there, but definitely not trying to do that unless there is demand.
Speaker 1:Um, we don't get push from any collectors anymore. Initially, when we first did, when we released the sub pass, our genesis pass, um, we did get like, hey, you guys are doing it wrong. And we're like we told you from the get-go this is how we're running it. So we're doing what we can and you know part of it's the market, but you won't want to be a participant in this art project. You can always sell your pass. And we told you you didn't have to have a pass to get the art. It just guaranteed you the art if you wanted it, yeah. And then, from the artist side, mean, then we also. The thing, the good thing is, we don't choose the artists.
Speaker 1:The curators do each month, so we just have to go find curators for the season and then, like two to three months ahead of time, we start bugging them about getting making sure they have their artists lined up and ready to go for their month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, yeah, and the the incentive to the curator is is it economic or is it just the desire for them to platform artists that they care?
Speaker 1:about. It's both um. So, like our, we give curators a 10 cut of the drop, um, but many, many don't take it. They just give it to the artist, um, but it is there for those that you know would like to take it for, because it does take work to organize this group and get this art made. Um, but sorry, what was the rest of that question?
Speaker 2:I'm like oh, just you know. I was just curious about the incentives for the curator, but that that totally made sense, mostly about just getting to play that role of platforming the artist yeah, they get the platform, the artist.
Speaker 1:They get to choose a rising star. Um, they also get, you know, a certain amount of additions from each artist that month. Um, yeah, so they get free art.
Speaker 1:They can do whatever they want with it, yeah um, yeah, but yeah, that's part um and it's every week yes, once a week, and I mean part of what goes into that is there's a curator video that he talked they, he or she talks about the artists. There's yeah, this art release videos. There's the artist videos. So there's a lot of content about around each of the the artists that drops with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. Okay, I have one last question. Let's do it. What's the deal with the biscuits?
Speaker 1:So during the pandemic I don't know who did it first, probably my sister made biscuits and then, like I don't know if it was that same weekend or the next week, my mom did it, made biscuits, but they were just making drop biscuits. And then I was like I can make biscuits too, so I made rolled and cut biscuits and then I loved them so much, I just kept on doing it every week, every week and just like made tweaks to the recipe and I also make them.
Speaker 1:They're like small biscuits, they're like inch and a half, two inches across, and so, yeah, that was it. And then I just, it just was funny. I thought it was funny and I was like I'll just post about it on Twitter and so it's just a funny thing that I enjoy and and now, you know, occasionally we'll do biscuit breakfasts at like an event, where I'll make the best biscuits and then like tater tots and uh eggs and just invite people over to have breakfast. So it's been fun.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, Hell yeah, Hell yeah. It's great man. Well, it's awesome to join you and excited for everything you guys are doing at ClickCreate. Man.
Speaker 1:Thanks, man. Do you have any projects you're working on that you'd like to? Tell us about.
Speaker 2:I would just say go to my Twitter. Every week we're doing our Vaulted podcast, yep, and I'm not sure when this will come out, but A couple of weeks Every week we have, yeah, yeah, every week we have some great, great guests. You know, I really like that show because at the tail end of each episode we do, uh, what I call like what's in your vault, and so we go into both of the guests vaults and, um, we let them share a piece. It's so infrequently a high value piece. It's. It's much more like you know what, what was an NFT? That was like impactful in your collecting journey, and the stories that come out of those moments are pretty special. So it's fun to be able to slow down a little bit in that respect, get rid of the financial element entirely in that section of the show and just hear these great stories about why people fell in love with collecting. Yeah, so, yeah, we, we share those episodes, uh, every thursday nice, I love that.
Speaker 1:No, I do like that part. Uh, I think I've watched two of them so far and yeah, that's it that's such a good uh addition to the show just to be able to see what people like and and the personal touch to it. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Well, cool man Eli, I just want to say cool. Thank you so much for coming on the show Spring some time with me. I loved it. Uh, I loved getting grilled with some questions too, cause that was really fun, and with some questions too, because that was really fun and thanks, thank you again.
Speaker 2:My honor man, so great, thank you.
Speaker 1:Outro Music.