NorCal and Shill
A podcast where NFT artists tell stories, hosted by NorCal Guy. https://twitter.com/GuyNorcal
https://twitter.com/norcalandshill
NorCal and Shill
From Web2 to Web3: One Collector's Journey
Klutch takes us behind the scenes of his transformation from skeptical observer to passionate NFT collector, sharing the pivotal moments that shaped his Web3 journey. As an accomplished Web2 founder with over $500 million in retail sales and one million satisfied customers, Klutch brings a unique business perspective to digital collecting.
The conversation reveals how a profound life lesson from his father's final days fundamentally changed his approach to challenges. "Promise me you're going to finish school," his father asked, a simple request that flipped a switch in Klutch's mind and transformed him from a struggling student to an achiever overnight. This transformative experience taught him the power of commitment and focus—principles he now applies to his collecting strategy.
Klutch articulates why he believes digital art will become "the number one collectible in the world," highlighting the frictionless nature of blockchain-based trading compared to traditional collectibles. "You want to buy a car, you're probably buying a car in your local region," he explains, contrasting this with the global reach of NFT markets. This worldwide connectivity not only facilitates commerce but fosters human connection across borders, leading to his observation that "we're all so much more alike than we are different."
Most revealing is Klutch's evolution from quick flips to strategic collecting. "Less degen behavior and more of a long-term view," he advocates, describing his transformation from chasing quick profits to dollar cost averaging into artists whose work and values resonate with him. This maturation mirrors the broader evolution occurring within the NFT space as it moves from speculation toward sustainable collecting practices.
Whether you're curious about NFTs, interested in collecting strategies, or simply enjoy stories of personal growth, this conversation offers valuable insights into how digital ownership is reshaping our relationship with art and commerce. Subscribe to hear more conversations with collectors and creators who are building the future of digital culture.
Who is this? Who is this guy?
Speaker 2:NorCal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal guy NorCal guy. Norcal and Chill Podcast so it's chill time. Norcal and Chill Podcast what the fuck, what the chill. Norcal and Chill Podcast so it's chill.
Speaker 1:Episode of NorCal and Shill the vault. Today we have Clutch. Clutch is an experienced Web2 founder with over 1 million satisfied customers and over 500 million worth of retail sales under his belt. Clutch currently considers himself to be a dollar cost averaging investor in NFTs and has been collecting since the summer of 2021. Clutch is a co-host of NorCal and Clutch podcast and a member of Tungsten Dao. Everyone, please welcome Clutch. Hey Clutch, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today? Good Thanks for having me. How are you Good? I'm so glad we could make this work. This is actually kind of fun, because we've never done an interview like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, am I the first selector gonna.
Speaker 1:That's gonna be on norcal and yeah, you're the first collector besides my interview. So yeah, you are the first one besides me oh, very nice.
Speaker 2:So you're gonna interview yourself.
Speaker 1:That's cool we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out, okay, that should be interesting. That would be fun playing devil's advocate with myself. What were your first thoughts when you heard about nfts?
Speaker 2:okay, this is easy. I thought it was so dumb, like, oh, my god, we're buying jpegs copy paste, bro. And then you know what happened. I was like, wait a second, is this 2013? Bitcoin again? And am I just being dumb and missing the opportunity of a lifetime? And I was like, quite possibly, so yeah. I very quickly changed my mind and I was like I should be a little more open-minded and explore this for sure. So, yeah, those are my first thoughts. But when I first did look at it, like I vowed I wasn't going to do anything for like six months. I was just going to watch and learn. Yeah, yeah, turns out I should have just bought a bunch of shit, but I didn't.
Speaker 1:Right, right, whoops. If you could live or move anywhere, where would you live and why?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a tough one, you know. I really love where I live. I live near Phoenix, arizona, and it's a beautiful place. I grew up in Wisconsin, which was, you know, cold Six months of crap weather and it's a beautiful place. I grew up in Wisconsin, which was, you know, cold yeah, six months of crap weather, no sun. You can leave your house. It's dark. Come home it's dark, like I did that my whole life, and living here is like totally different Blue skies 95% of the days. It's just beautiful, the weather is great.
Speaker 2:The only other thing I would do is for us our summers are like everybody else's winter right. So I would want a place where I could get out of here in the summer and growing up, I always would go like camping with my dad and we had a place on a lake that my grandparents owned and I love that. And now that I have kids, like I want to have that experience with my kids where I go fishing with them kind of out in the wilderness, can shoot some pellet guns or something like. I would stay living where I am, but I would find that summer home for, to get away to and have a totally different experience with the kids for yeah, no, I like that a lot.
Speaker 1:That's a great idea, like getting the kids out in nature just enjoying it. A lake is like perfect for that yeah it's so nice. What's the best piece of advice you've been given?
Speaker 2:oh tough. Okay, I always come back to one moment in my life that like I feel like changed my path and it was actually when I was in college and my dad had pancreatic cancer and he was you know, he fought, but it's pretty much like a death sentence, right. So like about two weeks before he passed, he knew I was having trouble in school. I partied, I partied hard, like this is like the culture in Wisconsin, right, like drinking and driving is cool there.
Speaker 1:You know Like it's pretty bad.
Speaker 2:I think it might have changed a little bit since 20 years ago, but like that's how it was right. Like people would be like I'm an excellent driver, who's the ddd?
Speaker 2:yeah like, looking back, it was pretty crazy, right, but that was the culture. So like, yeah, I got to college and I remember like in high school everything was easy. I just was I and I was pretty smart and I didn't have to work that hard and I got great grades. Then you get there and like all your competition is like now it's like way up another notch. It's not like the dumb ass you went to high school with anymore, who was like, you know, doesn't want to work hard for anything in life, right? So the competition at a high-end university is a totally different level.
Speaker 2:And I partied like crazy and I was on the verge of getting kicked out left and right, left and right. And two weeks before my dad died, it was like the last thing, the last time he could even talk. And he said to me just promise me, you're going to work through and finish school, right. And I was like, oh my God, this is my dad's dying wish for me. Like, ok, yes, it's time to buckle down. And you know it was like a believe in yourself and work hard moment, like you got this. If you just you can do this, but you can't. You know you got to take it seriously from now on and I did. It was like a switch flipped in my brain and I was like, yes, I'm going to do that. So I got great grades from then on. It was like I went from like barely staying in to like 3.8, like instantly, and it just showed me like man, I could have done this the whole time if I just had the motivation right, but I squandered those opportunities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel you on that one. Did you collect art or anything else before crypto art?
Speaker 2:Yes, I definitely collected art. My wife and I would travel a lot, and then pre-kids. It was like so easy to travel, right, and you go, and you would go to Italy and Spain and Greece and we would just go and then you'd find a gallery in the local town you're visiting Maybe it's like Positano, italy, or something and we'd just be like, hey, yeah, we'll buy this. Ship it back to the States for me, please. So I definitely did that. I got into collecting pretty hard during COVID because I was bored, as we all were, I think.
Speaker 2:And I started collecting bourbon because one of my business partners did so. That was kind of a fun little hobby. And my nephew plays baseball. He's in the minor leagues right now. So when he got drafted I started collecting his baseball cards again, and I haven't collected baseball cards since I was a kid, so it was interesting to get back in it and see how much more like developed it was now and like, yeah, it's totally different. Like you used to go to the card shops and you have the beckets and all this stuff. Now it's all on ebay right.
Speaker 1:So okay, the whole marketplace is on ebay these days. Oh, I had no idea. I just remember going and buying the beckets and being like oh, how much did it go up this month or down, or dang, I should have sold it, or something.
Speaker 2:Right, you get that card that goes from like 25 cents to 30 cents. As a kid, you're like heck yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. What are the best things about Web3 today and what are your concerns as it expands?
Speaker 2:I've thought about this one. The best thing to me is the freedom to transact. Now, the reason I'm saying that is because I don't know if you saw it, but Intrepid had a tweet thread about his life and how his life went through COVID, and it was crazy. This guy was on a boat with his family and COVID hit and they're from Australia, right, so he could not like get back home because they wouldn't let him in, right, and, yeah, other countries wouldn't let him in either. So him and his wife are on a boat and like with their kids they have like three young kids like for years.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh my god, like wow, looking back, we really overreacted quite a bit. And then he was you got to read this, I'll share it with you but like it is so crazy because it's like then, like all sudden, his credit cards would expire and he couldn't like re-up them because they'd want like some verification and he had to be like I don't know. He couldn't like re-up them because they'd want like some verification and he had to be like I don't know he couldn't get like internet access or he had to go into like a bank to do it and he's like I can't even get on shore, how can I go to a bank, right? And so he was like, oh my gosh, like it's so crazy, how do you survive when you don't have access to your money? Right?
Speaker 1:that's insane, so yeah that one hit home.
Speaker 2:I think that was a really powerful tweet thread. My concerns are obviously regulation in the future and security. I mean, the systems are still very hard to use and not very intuitive, and somebody getting hacked every other day still most of the time an ape right, yeah, yeah, yeah. They deserve that, though, man. They do that to themselves they deserve that, though, man.
Speaker 1:They do that to themselves. This is true. It's true. It's them trying to make a trade or grab that next hot, oh yeah, pfp.
Speaker 2:And like, oops, it's all gone, yeah no, they're always trying to make the trade, to avoid the royalties.
Speaker 1:Right, it's like whoops there, Whoops, there goes my ape Right and yeah. Another topic when do you see digital art in five years and do you have any concerns?
Speaker 2:Okay, I see it being huge. Honestly, like I've thought about this a lot and I think it's going to become the number one collectible in the world. Now, there are a lot of collectibles in the world. There is something for everyone, right? There's watches, there's cars, there's baseball cards, there's bourbon, there's, obviously, traditional art I mean, it could go on and on and the thing is, a lot of those things are like, trading them is not that easy, right, it requires a lot of middlemen and stuff.
Speaker 2:That's what I love about this technology, like it's kind of like makes peer to peer trading like really simple, right, right. And like worldwide, like you want to buy a car, you're probably buying a car in your like local region, sure, yeah, you're not like going on eBay motors and buying a car in your like local region, for sure. Yeah, you're not like going on ebay motors and buying a car in india or something. If you live here in the states, right, it's impossible, or the shipping would cost you more than the car. Yeah, but this is like, wow, worldwide we can trade. Like that is so cool. To me, that is very cool. So, yeah, I think it's going to be huge. Obviously, I'm betting a lot of my time and resources on it and I'm excited to see where we're going to go.
Speaker 1:No, I agree with you. I mean just the interactions alone. Like I've never talked to so many people around the world since I got into crypto art. It's like I mean the time zones can be a little awkward, but definitely like you talk to someone in Turkey or Russia or UK, australia, like Korea, japan. It's just crazy.
Speaker 2:And it's great, like you realize, like we're all so much more alike than we are different, like, so, like, while our leaders may have their wars and whatever, like you know, we can all just get along too, you know, it's so true. It's sad that it comes down to that a lot of times. But when you actually do meet these people and you realize like they're just like me, they have the same fears, the same concerns, they're just trying to provide for their family, like we are definitely all more alike, For sure.
Speaker 1:I wholeheartedly believe in that one. What makes you decide to buy a piece? Do you like watch the artist for a while, get to know them? Or is it like, uh, I'm buying it right now pure FOMO man like no, just kidding.
Speaker 2:Uh, sometimes right, sometimes yeah, but okay, most of the time I'm seeing it shared on twitter or something right by, by friends in the space right, other artists, other collectors, and that's how you're getting introduced to new artists a lot of times. And then you know if usually you see one piece that's shared and then you, if it catches your eye, you dive in and I'll go to their twitter profile. I look to see if they have a link tree, start trying to dive into their foundation or super rare or whatever they got on there. And most of the time I don't buy from an artist right away Like almost never, to be honest. Like I'm like okay, I want to follow them for sure, and then I'll start seeing how they're tweeting, what they're tweeting about, what their interests are. So I try to like get their vibe initially a little bit right and then just see what their work is and let it soak in a little bit right.
Speaker 2:Some works, definitely, it's like boom, I need that, like I love it. Other works, you're like that's really good, but do I want to invest in that when they're? You know there's an infinite amount of jpegs out there. So like you gotta pick and choose right where you're going to allocate your resources. So most of the time I'm doing the second, I'm taking my time that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. What is your favorite movie quote?
Speaker 2:okay, I love this question, by the way, because, like watching movies is one of my favorite hobbies. I have a 180-inch 4K Dolby Atmos theater in my house, like this is like my thing, like I'm old guy now, so like I don't go out clubbing anymore right.
Speaker 2:Like I go watch Disney movies with my kids and then when they go to bed I'll go watch older movies with my wife, or something right? So I do like this question and I thought about it quite a bit. I couldn't even narrow it down to one. I have like three answers yeah let's do it All three, okay.
Speaker 2:My first one was from the Princess Bride, and it was. My name is El Nino Montoya. You killed my father, prepare to die Now. The reason I love this one is because in the movie he keeps saying it over and over and over right, and he's like just keeps going, pushing forward. It's like he's showing that he's like determined to accomplish his mission, no matter what he's gonna get it done. So I like that symbolism. The second one I came up with was from a one of my favorite movies when I was gosh. I don't remember when I maybe when I was a teenager break heart yeah so I loved this movie.
Speaker 2:I watched it like a hundred times at least. Right, so he's got the I fight and you may die, run and you live at least a while and dying in your beds many years from now. Would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that one for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives but they'll never take our freedom, like that's, like you think about that moment in the movie. There's like so much power there, like you have a choice. You can fight through this thing to succeed, or you can give up and go home and lose your freedoms. And that choice hits you in life many times.
Speaker 2:There are many times you can fight through something or you can give up, and it's happened to me a lot in recent years and with my business, for example, and I always choose to fight. So I like that quote because I like the symbolism and, yeah, I really just love it. I love that. The last one would be the whole rap scene at the end of 8 Mile. I won't do that one, but I love it.
Speaker 2:Too bad. I could just like sometimes I'll just go to YouTube just to watch it. It's so good, you know, I just love it. It's like such a jam too, Like you feel. Oh, it just pumps you up Like, yeah, get them rabbit.
Speaker 1:Too bad. It's over for a performance.
Speaker 2:Maybe next time.
Speaker 1:Maybe in NFT NYC Karaoke night or something. There you go. What would you like to see more of in the crypto art space?
Speaker 2:Okay, less degen behavior and more of a long-term view. That is the single biggest one. Like, all the degens flipping are just, you know, obviously hoping for a quick buck, right. That's why we all got in practically Almost everybody I know got in for sure, and there were pockets of time where you could do that and be successful for sure. But most of the time it's not that easy.
Speaker 2:It's like really challenging, like, oh, I'm going to flip this for 40 bucks, like okay, and then your time investment and the emotional energy you got to put into it is like a lot right. Like you're like oh, am I up, am I down? Oh my God, oh crap, I lost 40 bucks. Like this sucks, right, like, and you get too emotionally attached to these decisions. So I was definitely in that person at first, right, but over time my collecting behavior changed and I realized, well, that's not really what I want to be here for. I actually don't need the 40 bucks like. I'm here to like build something for the long term and I believe in this space and technology for the long term. So that's why I shipped it and became a dollar cost averaging investor is what I consider myself into nfts. So, yeah, less dgen behavior and more of a long-term view, I think would be better for.
Speaker 1:What is the best thing and the silliest thing? You've spent money on.
Speaker 2:Okay, this one's so easy, and this is a pro tip for anybody out there who can do this?
Speaker 2:Best thing I ever spent money on was my wife. Okay, get this. When we met she worked multiple jobs. She was one of the hardest working people I've ever met. She worked customer service during the day and then she worked at a bar at night. That's how I met her. She was the bartender and she worked a lot like and it was kind of getting to a point I was like, well, you know, if we're gonna be together like long term, you don't actually have to do that anymore. Like I make enough money for both of us and I knew she was really into cooking, right like I loved it like food network on all the time at my house.
Speaker 2:Well, pre-kids now it's mostly disney, but she still loves food network, right. So I was like you want to go to culinary school. And she's like, yeah. And I was like, oh, this is going to be the best investment of my lifetime because I'm going to get, like chef, quality food at home forever. So, yeah, that's my best investment ever Send your spouse to culinary school Pro tip.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:What was the silliest Okay, silliest man that one's tough. The silliest thing I ever spend money on is stuff I don't use. Probably right, like I'll always go buy the new xbox or ps5 and then I don't play it, like I don't have time for that, but I gotta have it, like I don't know. So I go buy it and it sits there so yeah, that's the silliest.
Speaker 1:That's fair. That's fair. That's a good one, I agree. I agree. If you could commission a piece and have two artists collab on it, which two artists would it be?
Speaker 2:this is so hard like there are just an infinite number of combinations. It's too hard, like, but you got to think of artists that will fit together right like, like, for example, you could and there's easy ones right like you could do grant you in the next copy and it would be cool to see x try to glitch up a grant piece. Yeah, that'd be cool, like it would be cool to see x try to glitch up a warhol which would you know?
Speaker 1:kind of a similar cool. That'd be a cool combo similar mix.
Speaker 2:But there's one I really like that I've thought of and it's because I've seen ruben do a combo. So I think kath samard and jenny passanen would be really cool, because kath has always been very open to ai. She's definitely pushed me when I was super anti, like a year ago, and she helped me open up my own mind to be more accepting of it. And then I saw jenny did a collab with ruben which was actually really good. So I feel like those two would make a killer collab and I am going to try to get them to do that for click. I'm'm going to keep, you know, poking up and being like come on, please.
Speaker 1:I like it. I like it, I can't. Yeah, that's going to be great. That'd be great for whoever's month that ends up. It We'll see. Hopefully it happens. What is one interesting fact about you that people might not be aware of?
Speaker 2:Okay interesting fact about you that people might not be aware of. Okay, so one interesting fact is I originally wanted to do exactly what grant is doing. I went to the same university. I had the intentions of going to the same exact medical school. I actually went to that medical school in high school for like after school extra things and they had like what they called mini medical school. I actually went to that medical school in high school for like after school extra things and they had like what they called mini medical school. I wanted to be a doctor my entire life, yeah, like so, yeah, that's the one interesting thing. I really wanted to go down that path. Now I'm really glad I did that. It's funny how you think you want something super bad in life and then later on you realize, right, it's probably good that it didn't happen what is your favorite way to connect with new people in this space?
Speaker 2:meeting in real life. I mean, obviously we all twittered right now and all that. But man, when we go to like art basel or nft nyc and you get to meet these people, have conversations with them, like you feel like your friendship goes up another level. It totally does it totally does.
Speaker 1:I mean, I remember like the first events that I went to and I was just like wow, like I actually feel like I made a better connection and just, I don't know it's there's something about that.
Speaker 2:In person yeah, the real hug versus the virtual emoji hug like the real hug's better, sure. So yeah, I would say, meeting in real life is my favorite, and just hanging out and talking about life. That's not always about nfts, right, like we're all here grinding on nfts all time. But when you get in that atmosphere you tend to have other conversations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really enjoyed. One that stands out was going to Miami and getting a spot and sharing it with you. It was so nice and chill and we could just like chill and chat about whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you came home I didn't go to that one event. And then you came back to the Airbnb later and then we just had wine and pizza and whiskey and we just hung out on the couch and watched TV. Like that was awesome. That was a good time it was like we really became, like you know, really really great friends.
Speaker 1:I feel like in that moment, yeah, I'm looking forward to that again in New York. Like it was awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well Ding, tell me about. Is there any projects you're working? On that you'd like to talk about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know of one. Have you ever heard of Click Create? I heard about it before. Okay, let's do that one. Everybody go check us out, clickcreateio. And here's what I would like you all to know about us. For example, we are investing heavily into our artists. We are making these great artist spotlight videos and I did a Twitter poll the other day and I found out most people don't even know we're doing them yet. So we're going to have to do a better job of showing people that we're doing them and hopefully over time, they'll realize we're doing them. But we're doing really great things. I'm excited about what we're building. We're in a little bit of a bear right now Everybody knows it, but like long term, super bullish on what we're doing, because you know what we're doing, what's right. We're just putting out great art. We're promoting artists.
Speaker 1:We're trying to take care of our collectors, so I'm super excited about it. Yeah, it's an amazing project which, funny enough, kind of spawned from miami it did, yeah sure did. Yeah, I love it. I can't wait for this project to just grow. We're just starting month two and it's just getting better and better.
Speaker 2:I love it yeah, and like the lineup is to come like transient just announced and everybody was seen pretty excited about it. And then we got coldies month and we know those artists already and those are bangers. So it's like wow. And we got Dave Krugman, then we got Grant Yoon. Like it's just going to just boom, boom, boom. You know it's funny, I think like we're going to get to the end of the year and it'll be over and we're like wow, that happened pretty fast. But when you're in the middle of it it's like it feels like we're definitely grinding, like this is way more work than I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1:I know I'm always like dang, what do I need? Oh yeah, I need to do this.
Speaker 2:I need to do this dude.
Speaker 1:Thanks again. I enjoyed this. It was really fun and I can't wait.
Speaker 2:I had fun too. Man can't wait to see you in New York.
Speaker 1:I know only a couple weeks away more pizza, more wine, more whiskey.
Speaker 2:I'm ready, I'll see you there. I love.
Speaker 1:It sounds good. Bye this guy. Who is this guy who?
Speaker 2:is this guy NorCal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy, norcal guy. Norcal guy. Norcal and chill Podcast Show. It's chill time NorCal and chill Podcast. What the? What the Chill? Norcal and chill Podcast Show. It's chill time. Norcal and chill Podcast. What the? What the.